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Message |
    
Howard Hoover
Member
Username: Howard_hoover
Post Number: 50
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 4.161.111.127
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 03:21 am: | 
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My dad bought 2 Air Motors that looked to be barely used and maybe not at all.
My dad sells these new Portable Powder Coating Machines & I may get into the applications soon.
But anyway I am trying to talk him into building a 4 wheel cart to put all his stuff on for Demonstrations right now he has everything in the back of a Horse trailer. We modified a small cart while I was down there last time but the weight of everything on it bent the undercarriage But I gave him 2 frame rails and I think we can build a cart and put these Air Motors on it to power it since it will have an Air Compressor on it anyway. I brought up the idea of using them for a 6x6 but I don't think he liked the idea since they were his Air Motors, but I think they would be good for a 6x6 since you can switch from forward to reverse instantly without stopping and operate each side independently of each other that would make for a true Zero turning radius. They seemed to be slow turning but really powerful so I don't know how much speed you could get out of them. The guy had one of these little bitty air compressors running them. IF ANYONE HAS ANY EXPERIENCE WITH AIR MOTORS I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT IT. I have been reading & posting on this site for probably about 4 or five years and can't remember ever reading anything about anyone wanting to use AIR MOTORS to power a 6x6. Thanks Howard Hoover |
Howard Hoover
Intermediate Member
Username: Howard_hoover
Post Number: 51
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 4.161.23.219
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 02:03 am: |
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Check out this link called CATS which is
Compressed Air Technology Systems if anyone can find a way to read it in English let me know but I have already sent an email to the company about English Translations:
www.mdi.lu/modules.php?op=modload&name=news&file=article&sid=57&mode=thread&orde r=0&thold=0 |
Howard Hoover
Intermediate Member
Username: Howard_hoover
Post Number: 52
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 4.161.23.219
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 02:46 am: |
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Here is a better link for the Air Car
www.theaircar.com |
Joshua McCastle
Member
Username: Mccastlej
Post Number: 30
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.181.102.85
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 07:55 pm: |
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Below is a link for a free translation site. Just copy and paste contents into the translation box. The link that you were looking at is French.
http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/tr |
Eugene Kochnieff
New member
Username: Eugenek
Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 210.49.63.118
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 10:45 pm: |
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Hi Howard,
The air motor option is not practical, the amount of air you would need to run a 6x6 is astronomical!
Just think of it this way, to get the performance of say a 25 hp argo/max you would need 25 hp worth of air motor.
Now as you don't get something for nothing the compressor which cannot be 100% efficient will need to have an engine rated at much more than 25HP and thats a very big and heavy compressor.
Air tools are great in industry as they have all the advantages of electric tools with the added benefit that they run cool and do not pose an electric shock risk.
Take care
Eugene Kochnieff |
Howard Hoover
Intermediate Member
Username: Howard_hoover
Post Number: 53
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 4.161.23.92
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 04:18 am: |
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Maybe you should look at this link Eugene since they claim 100% more efficiency than their competitors. If these engines will pull a car they will pull an AATV!!! www.engineair.com.au |
Marc Stobinski
Member
Username: Jerseybigfoot
Post Number: 22
Registered: 06-2000
Posted From: 66.106.213.2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 02:21 pm: |
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Howard, Eugene is correct even if the air motor is 100% efficient you need to have storage tanks and a large compressor. Compressing air creates heat and heat is a product of an inefficient drive system. The same goes for hydraulic drive systems. The more efficient the hydraulic drive the less the heat. The aircar engine uses compressed air to increase the compression ratio after the pressure piston hits TDC otherwise it generally runs on air/fuel. it appears it could also run on compressed air and operate as a air motor until the compressed air in the storage tanks are empty.The novelty of this engine is the small piston compresses air into a fixed combustion chamber and the ignited exhaust is released to a larger piston increasing the crank torque.
Getting back to your original thought of using air motors for an atv. You can easily calculate the air volume required for your motors based upon the motor torque, displacement, gear ratio and speed you want go. you will still need an engine a compressor, air receiver, and control valves. The only advantage you have will be fill tires very quickly on the trail.
The trend today to increase efficiency in hydraulic drives is to increase the hydraulic pressure. Higher pressure also equates to smaller components, less weight and lower cost. |
Howard Hoover
Intermediate Member
Username: Howard_hoover
Post Number: 54
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 4.161.105.0
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 04:04 am: |
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I don't know much at all about air motors but I do know that the technology is getting better & better. If you look at the last link I put up www.engineair.com.au you can see they, like www.theaircar.com are already using their systems on 3 & 4 wheeled vehicles, I didn't read anything anywhere that told how far you could travel though and I think that would be one of my main concerns. I know the aircar site are using fairly large air tanks made out of CARBON FIBER and some other material so the tanks must be pretty light. They looked to be at least 12 inches in diameter or so and several feet long. If you were to use them in an AATV the weight probably wouldn't be much different than say a 25hp briggs or so I know there not very heavy. If I remember correctly the air cars would run off air or fuel but I believe the engineair people are just using tanks charged with air and nothing else so you wouldn't have the weight or heat associated with a compressor but I don't believe the aircars have a compressor on them anyway they might have a small one but I believe I read that they would have air refueling or recharging stations just like a gas station. I know there always seems to be a lot of negativity on this board towards new technology I know Air motors aren't new but the technology of them obviously has improved a great deal if what the people at engineair are saying is true. And if you read the article the guy who developed this particular air motor is the same guy who developed or helped develope the wankel rotary engine for one of the German Car Companys I believe it was. |
Marc Stobinski
Member
Username: Jerseybigfoot
Post Number: 23
Registered: 06-2000
Posted From: 68.193.116.132
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 10:56 pm: |
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Howard, In your first post it sounds like you wanted a engineered or informed opinion on the practicality of using air motors. Air motors drives using only on-board storage tanks for an AATV is just not practical. This is not negativity, the opinion is based on sound fluid power engineering and many years experience with a variety of AATV's. If you are interested in calculating the required air volume, motor displacement, gear ratio, for running (2) air motors in an AATV I can set you up on how to do it. |
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