| Author |
Message |
    
Harry Dusseau (Dirtyharry)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: | 
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I need to know the #/size for the chain that connects the tranny to the jackshaft on my '96 Max II. Is it #50 or #60 or a different size?? I have access to farm/industrial supply shops locally that should sell this stuff.
My right side chain broke, in of all places, the middle of a HUGE watery swamp area. Yuck! It was just one of many things that went wrong with my day.
Hope someone can help. Thank you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
DirtyHARRY |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Harry, It should be RC 50 chain, 46 pitches |
Harry Dusseau (Dirtyharry)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Thanks Fred.
I was able to get my MAX out of there the next day (it was near dark when it happened of course!). Thank GOD I had my Rokon Trailbreaker!!! I was able to hook enough lengths of chain & cable together to reach the MAX and pull it to the shore. Kept the best piece of tow cable, threw the rest in the back of the MAX and towed it home. Sure love my 2x2 bike! I had a good 200 pounds of gear in the MAX plus my cousin in it to steer and me on the Rokon. It was pulling a good half ton - no problem!
Now to fix my MAX.... *grumble* I discovered that the main drive chains have been adjusted as far as they'll go, so I guess it's time to do a total chain swap. It's been four years, so they've held up pretty well.
Do you know the total number of links for the front and rear chains??? I know they also use #50 roller chain and the jackshaft itself uses #60. (I dug out one of the old pamphlets Recreatives sent me way back before I bought my machine.) Also... do you recommend installing new nylon adjuster 'shoes' while doing the chain switch, or will they last a while longer?
Thanks again Fred.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > >> > > > :(
HARRY |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Harry, you are right on sizes - main chains are 102 pitches, Jackshaft to middle axle is 60 Rc and 34 pitches. I think the nylon part last almost forever. The springs in the adjusters can break (need to have the adjuster out of the machine and make sure the spring is in right if one plans on just changing a spring). It depends on how clean you keep your chain trough and how much gunk is on the adjusters. If you haven't had any problem keeping them where you put them, I'd just change chains. If they have been popping out of position, they could be gunked up and the ridges don't fit right, or the edges could be worn off and the adjuster will need to be replaced. If you have not been having problems, just make sure they are clean between the two metal plates.
Yup, hardly ever seem to have trouble when it is easy to get too. |
Harry Dusseau (Dirtyharry)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Does R.I. have a recommended timeline for chain replacement??? Does chain differ in quality (enough to warrant paying a lot more for a "brand name" chain vs. import cheapo)???
How much longer (in theory) does the new o-ring chain last over the old style?
Harry |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Harry, I think chain life is very variable based on driving conditions, how clean it is kept, and how well it is kept at the proper tension (a big ball park figure is 200 hours to 500 hours.) I would say quality is very important - top quality (don't think brand is all that important) will probably last twice as long, maybe longer. The o-ring chain is expected to have about five times the life of regular roller chain, but pre-October 1998 max IIs will not accept the o-ring (chain is too wide to fit) while all Max IVs will accept o-ring chains. |
Harry Dusseau (Dirtyharry)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Thanks for the info, Fred. Wow! Five times the life of the old roller stuff, eh? Pretty cool. I'm guessing it costs just about that many times more than the old style, too. Oh well. At least you only have to swap them out 1/5th as often, which is kinda nice.
Figures the o-ring chains can't be retrofitted to the older Maxes. Dang. |
philip w.cox
Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 32
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 209.226.175.30
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 10:10 pm: |
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Double sprocket on left rear axle under the engine pulley slid inward on my Max iv about 3/8
of an inch. Big noise.I stopped driving as soon as I could and got a ride with a friend back to
my trailer. The short chain is rubbing on the
assembly that holds the adjuster sprocket does not appear to be any damage done. The PROBLEM is
I have removed the engine and located the one and only allen head set screw in the twin sprocket assembly but even though it was loose
enough to let the sprocket slide on the axle--
I CANNOT TURN THE SET SCREW. I sprayed the area with carb cleaner to clean it up and wd. 40 to
loosen it and got a name brand 5/32 allen wrench
and put vice grips on the allen wrench but it won,t move. I tried turning the set screw on the center axle and it turns. What can I do now? |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Intermediate Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 86
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 12:03 am: |
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Phillip,
You need to heat it up to 400 degrees (light yellow) for about five minutes to release the red locktight. You might have one long set screw or two short ones in the same hole. So when you get it loose, take it all the way out and see if there is another one beneath it. |
philip w.cox
Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 33
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 209.226.175.30
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 08:36 pm: |
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Thanks Fred- I appreciate your advice. I will
heat 'er up tomorrow. I have removed both chains
to give myself better access to the sprocket but
i'm a little concerned about rethreading the short chain back on. (assuming I get my problem fixed). Is there a procedure? that makes it easier? Start at bottom? fasten a wire to the lead end of the chain to keep it pulled tight?
When I have it running again I will report.
By the way with the chains off the sprocket(s)
will slide on the shaft inward making the alignment even worse but they won,t slide out to where they belong. Thanks again. |
Bill cripe
Junior Member
Username: Bcripe
Post Number: 15
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 148.64.161.186
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 10:14 pm: |
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philip, What year is your Max IV? Is that something that is fairly common on Max IVs without the snap ring axle mod?
Thanks
BC |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Intermediate Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 87
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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Philip, Not sure what to tell you on the chain going back on. It's been a while since I worked on one and I've got enough in my head that I don't remember the exact procedure, but I have a couple pieces of coat hanger wire that I can hook into either or both ends if need be. With the engine and engine support frame out, it shouldn't be too big a problem .Sounds like maybe your set screw missed the indention in the axle.
What year and model machine are you working on? |
david berger
Advanced Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 166
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.134.211.96
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 09:57 am: |
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HI PHILIP, AFTER THE HEATED LOCK TIGHT BRAKES DOWN AND YOUR SUCSESSFUL IN STRAITINING ALL THAT SPROKET STUFF OUT YOU MAY WISH TO CONCIDER REPLACEING THE SET SCREWS WITH A HEX HEAD BOLT, THATS WHAT TIM SCHOTANUS DID.
MAY NEED A SLIGHT POINT GROUND ON END OF BOLT TO GO INTO HOLE IN AXEL. |
philip w.cox
Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 36
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 209.226.175.59
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 09:59 pm: |
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FRED and Bill Cripe--It is a MAX IV bought new in August 2003 and the dealer had to order it from R.I.-model 900 with 25 h.p. Kohler.
No Bill I don,t think this happens often on any max machines but of course I wish I had the new snap ring axles now. AS Fred said its likely the
set screw missed the indentation in the axle but was tight enough to hold for more than 2 years and over 200 hours of abuse!
Fred the day to day necessities of life caught up with me today and I have only been home for a couple of hours---
zero time spent on MAX. Worse I leave in the a.m. for a few days--but the weekend looks positive. Hello MR. Berger, I had noticed that you advised others that Mud Buster used a bolt instead of the set screw after he fixed his
rear axle problem--If I remember right you said a grade 8 bolt? Did TIM use red Locktite on the bolt? What about putting a nut on the bolt before threading it in tight and then tightening
the nut back down us a jamb nut? |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Intermediate Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 88
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 10:56 pm: |
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Philip,
Being a 2003, you probably only have one long set screw. |
Bill cripe
Junior Member
Username: Bcripe
Post Number: 16
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 148.64.161.186
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 11:46 am: |
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Seems like this is a problem that I hear more and more about on pre snap ring axles and higher hp machines (900-950).
Thanks,
BC |
philip w.cox
Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 37
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 209.226.175.30
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 02:43 pm: |
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Gentlemen: Despite your help I am still elbow deep in Castrol chain grease and Not mobile.
As per Fred's advice I heated up the sprocket to loosen the set screw. Pretty sure I overheated the set screw and took the temper out of it.
THE wrench turns but the set screw does not.
I am told that the sprocket should not be able to rock back and forth on the axle splines the way it does so I have pulled the wheel and the outer bearing, and the bolt inside the inner bearing and when I finish this coffee I am going out to cut the axle. Thankfully here in the Great White North today is Thanksgiving and at
least it,s a holiday. W. Philip Cox |
david berger
Advanced Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 173
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.209.140.244
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 10:53 am: |
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philip if that sproket slid inward you might be able to just pull the axel out, then replace the troublesome sproket as well as dryfit everything outside max to see that all fit well before crammin it back together |
philip w.cox
Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 38
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 209.226.175.30
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 01:11 pm: |
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David--it sounds good but--the sprocket seemed loose on the splines and I could not get it off the end of the axle-it wasn,t loose then! I cut the axle off outside of the tub and phoned Jay at R.I. I plan to be at his shop tomorrow
morning and will replace all parts that he thinks are suspect. Look at the bright side, at least I,ll have one new snap ring type axle.
By the way-when you are leaning over heating the rear sprocket with a torch, the burning chain lube (chains removed) smells about as good as a tire fire. W. Philip |
philip w.cox
Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 39
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 209.226.175.59
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 11:44 pm: |
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My ordeal continues: I went to R.I. in Buffalo.
These are nice people.John was willing to spend as much time with me as I needed and answer all of my questions and apologise for the expense of the parts and throw in many at no charge. I left with lots of advice, a complete new axle assembly with all new bearings, gaskets,nuts bolts washers shims,rope caulking and the shorter drive chain and sprocket and snap rings.
What other product could you buy from a dealer
and have the manufacturer welcome you into their factory like you were a member of the family?
John told me that I would need a GOOD pair of SNAP RING pliers, I beleived him but I didn,t
know how to recognise a good pair. That cost me 2 days of frustration and running around. (TIP
don,t go to a store with unknowlegable staff if
you don,t know either) I now have the axle in,
lined up perfectly, with bearings and sprocket.
But --I have a new problem--Master Chain links!!!
I HAVE THE CHAINS ON and I have 1/2 of the link
in but I can,t seem to get the second plate on far enough to let me install the locking spring clip.-sure I,m embarrassed to ask ,but lets face it I,m getting desperate here!--Is there a trick
to getting the second half of the master link on,and the locking clip????
Note to Fred Sowerine-The package of red permanent Permatex Threadlocker says to remove it, it must be heated just like you said. I would rather have used lockrite red 721 as called for, but I could only find PERMATEX red and i,m pretty sure it is the equivalent. |
philip w.cox
Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 40
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 209.226.175.59
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 11:47 pm: |
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My ordeal continues: I went to R.I. in Buffalo.
These are nice people.John was willing to spend as much time with me as I needed and answer all of my questions and apologise for the expense of the parts and throw in many at no charge. I left with lots of advice, a complete new axle assembly with all new bearings, gaskets,nuts bolts washers shims,rope caulking and the shorter drive chain and sprocket and snap rings.
What other product could you buy from a dealer
and have the manufacturer welcome you into their factory like you were a member of the family?
John told me that I would need a GOOD pair of SNAP RING pliers, I beleived him but I didn,t
know how to recognise a good pair. That cost me 2 days of frustration and running around. (TIP
don,t go to a store with unknowlegable staff if
you don,t know either) I now have the axle in,
lined up perfectly, with bearings and sprocket.
But --I have a new problem--Master Chain links!!!
I HAVE THE CHAINS ON and I have 1/2 of the link
in but I can,t seem to get the second plate on far enough to let me install the locking spring clip.-sure I,m embarrassed to ask ,but lets face it I,m getting desperate here!--Is there a trick
to getting the second half of the master link on,and the locking clip????
Note to Fred Sowerine-The package of red permanent Permatex Threadlocker says to remove it, it must be heated just like you said. I would rather have used lockrite red 721 as called for, but I could only find PERMATEX red and i,m pretty sure it is the equivalent. |
Anonymous
Posted From: 24.75.42.10
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 08:16 am: |
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Phillip, O-ring chain master link plates are generally a press fit. Take a pair of vise grip pliers and squeeze the plates together on the center of the plate. You can also use a spare nut and vise grip pliers and use it to press each end of the plate over the pin (the nut will allow pressure on the plate and the pin to stick through). Most ATV/motorcycle shops also carry a few different chain press tools (probably $25-$50), but the vise grip pliers should work fine. Just press the plates together until you can see the groove for the master link clip and install the clip. |
david berger
Advanced Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 178
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.208.95.249
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 09:28 am: |
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vice grip plyers with long noses have bin modifyed in the past to also pull each end of chain cloaser when nessesary so masters could slide threw without trouble, and the newer style chain with o-ring is as said above, needs squizeing to hold side plates on firmly to alow locking clip to fit, you must get correct master links too as there are probly 8 diferent width's out there, o-ring is likely the widest of them all!
be shure your chain ideler is compleatly disengaged from chain too.
what did you need the locktight for?
ohh and id have used the blue thred lock, who needs the red headakes, |
philip w.cox
Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 41
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 209.226.251.23
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 07:45 pm: |
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Thanks Anonymous and Dave rrrd.
I am ready to give it another shot hopefully tommorrow aft. Dave we can relax re; locktite,
the only place that it is called for on the new "Snap Ring" type axle is on the 3/8 bolt
that goes thru a thick washer and lockwasher into
the end of the axle at the inner frame rail bearing.
The old one had a bunch of red locktite on it but nothing can outdo a 9/16 socket. By the way
my apologies to Fred Sowerwine for misspelling
your name,it's my one finger typing my friend,
many of us appreciate the time you take give us reliable advice when we are not likely to ever be able to do bussiness with you. Later W. Philip |
david berger
Advanced Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 182
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.140.32.168
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 09:34 am: |
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when we are not likely to ever be able to do bussiness with you:
viseters to freds site can find neat stuff there like super moskito killer and stuff like that, so posably people could do buisness with fred globaly |
philip w.cox
Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 46
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 209.226.175.59
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 09:25 pm: |
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NO. NO. Please! Hold your applause. I want to thank my parents, my wife ......I am so happy that I could spit. The Max runs. I checked and
double checked every thing---then I backed it out
then I drove up the hill in the driveway and let it roll back down and gassed it back up for about a 1/2 hour. Then I drove around in the ditches no farther away than I wanted to walk home--NOTHING WENT WRONG! it was going to get dark,I had the back floor removed, it needed to be tested-so I drove it into the BAY of QUINTE
and it didn,t leak.Tphanks for all your help.
Life is good again. W.PHILIP COX |
david berger
Advanced Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 185
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.172.51.212
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 04:09 pm: |
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thats great news philip,
now try to keep the rubber side down,
:-) |
philip w.cox
Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 47
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 209.226.175.59
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 07:54 pm: |
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Thank you David---------------And you are a dog to mention that. Best wishes. W. Philip |
Shop Talk: Tech Tips and Q&A section