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Patrick Martin (Mrsal)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: | 
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OK, stupid question time. My Max IV has a bent front left axle. Removed the main retaining bolt (what was left of it) and loosened all the locking collar set screws and expected the axle to slide right out...? Is this a correct assumption, or did I miss something simple?
This particulat axle is so bent it actually busted the bearing cage in half, so it may be so skewed it doesn't want to come out. Any ideas on how to get the thing out? I noticed that the locking collars appear to have major scarring as if there was another set screw in there, but I don't want to have to resort to torching those collars off. |
MaxRules (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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If the axle is bent that bad, the axle is not going to slide out of the bearing. You need to take off the three outer flange bolts so the bearing can come out with the axle. Make sure you take out the axle bolt (or sprocket allen screw on splined axles) and both lock collars if your machine has inner bearings. It should come out easily then but if it doesn't, the inner bearing could be stuck on the axle.
MaxRules |
mike s.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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patrick martin-a sawsall works great when the axle is trashed. take apart the flanges and cut the axle. pull out one piece through the tub,and lift the other out. |
Patrick Martin (Mrsal)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Thanks everyone for the advice. I finally got the axle out in one piece, and just received my new bearing cage and axle in the mail. Does anyone know how hard the peers bearings are to come by or should I be able to find them locally? |
John Coffel (Jowayen)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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I have a '99 Argo Vanguard2. The front "exhaust" side axle is bent. I am trying to remove it. 2 set screws each are removed from the inner bearing, outer bearing and sprocket and also I have removed the axle end retaining bolt. I have a slide hammer but it won't budge the axle. I did notice when I removed the retaining bolt that the inside washer seemed to have lock-tite on it. Could the axle have been lock-tited to the bearing? Past experience says heat the bearing to break the lock-tite loose. |
Jon Hoath
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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John,
You should also remove the outer bearing bolts on the bearing flange, from the sound of it, you are trying to remove just the axle and no bearings. with the outer bearing flange bolts out, the slide hammer should remove it with no problem. When you put the new axle in, make sure to use locktight on the set screws and anti-seize on the axle were the bearings are set at to prevent future problems removing the axle. you would also be wise to replace the two rubber seals inside the outer bearing flange to prevent water leakage. with a bent axle, they more than likely will be damaged and not watertight. I also replace the flange bolts and nuts (I use nylock nuts). they are cheap. |
jowayen
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Those outer flange bolt are removed thinking maybe it was a "square shoulder" retaining design. Same as described above - it will not move. It won't budge. I SURE don't want to pull the motor just to get a torch to the end of the axle. Any other suggestions? |
Jon Hoath
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Well, you can cut the axle in half about the same place the sprocket sits on the axle, the axle is bad anyway, and then pull the inner bearing out with the cut in half axle still in it. an arbor press will remove the axle from the inner bearing. then the outer bearing and other half of the axle will come out.
the only trick is getting the inner bearing bolts out.
I would put PB Blaster in the set screw holes and let it soak in over night, maybe 3 or 4 nights and try that before anything. If you do cut the axle in half to get it out, I would suggest only using a saws-all. acetyline cutting torches can burn plastic very quickly. good luck. |
Jon Hoath
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Well, you can cut the axle in half about the same place the sprocket sits on the axle, the axle is bad anyway, and then pull the inner bearing out with the cut in half axle still in it. an arbor press will remove the axle from the inner bearing. then the outer bearing and other half of the axle will come out.
the only trick is getting the inner bearing bolts out.
I would put PB Blaster in the set screw holes and let it soak in over night, maybe 3 or 4 nights and try that before anything. If you do cut the axle in half to get it out, I would suggest only using a saws-all. acetyline cutting torches can burn plastic very quickly. good luck. |
jowayen
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Thanks for the suggestions from all. However, a GM shop mechanic manager friend of mine had the tip that got the job done and I want to pass it on to all others. We re-heated the inner bearing again - I mean smokin' hot. Then HIS trick. Simple C02 can of aerosol spray. We sprayed this into the retaining bolt hole to "freeze" the axle. Man, when I say this worked, I mean IT WORKED. I grabbed the slide hammer to give it a whack but before I could wind up, the axle FELL out. Thanks Mr. Goodwrench. |
John Coffel (Jowayen)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Thanks for the suggestions from all. However, a GM shop mechanic manager friend of mine had the tip that got the job done and I want to pass it on to all others. We re-heated the inner bearing again - I mean smokin' hot. Then HIS trick. Simple C02 can of aerosol spray. We sprayed this into the retaining bolt hole to "freeze" the axle. Man, when I say this worked, I mean IT WORKED. I grabbed the slide hammer to give it a whack but before I could wind up, the axle FELL out. Thanks Mr. Goodwrench. |
RMiller
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Hey All,
A friend and I just found an old 252 Colt in a guys yard, buried up to the overhang in mud. Well we bought it hauled it out and cleaned it up.
252L JLO motor (no pull start mechanism [fixed]
1 REALLY bent driver's side front axle. Faded plastic, a few cracks, 2 holes (2") and 4 trashed fatcat tires.
After cleanup, it runs...tranny and sticks need adjustment, but no big deal. I have a spare 297L with electric start that I will be retrofitting in the near future. Bought 6 new wheels and tires (haven't arrived yet. But so far, I think I may have found a winner!
Only issue I could use help with (PLEASE!) is getting the bent axle out and replaced. I have loosened both collars (one exterior and one inboard of the disc brake) pulled the inside and outside axle through bolts, sprayed the hell out of it with PB.....I MUST be missing something.
I'd hate to have to drive it this way. Had to occur when someone crashed, the four bolts that go through the body into the frame holding the bearing have been replaced and there is some bodywork around it.
I hope to start 6x6'ing as a long term, year round hobby and am grateful for finding Route6x6 and these discussion boards!!
I'm in New York, about 90 miles North of NYC.
Thanks,
Rick |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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rick if you cant get it out it can be straitend in the machine, and then if you drive it some with the colers loose,ect..ect.. someday it'l come free.
theres pic's and basic instructions on how to straten that bent axel in the machine on pete cagels web site, he has a link off the route6x6 links page.
i have done it over 50 times i think!
there was several postes a month or so ago from someone with simeler problem, he heated the drive tube beat it with a punch full lenth and then cooled it with more pb ect..ect..then a big long punch from other side he drove the axel threw the drive tube and out, another thing that may or may not help would be to remove the bolts from outer bearing flanges, myself most times i take outer bearing off with my locking coller bearing type axels, this is because they can become frozen to the axels and removeing them in a press is easyer, once you remove them you will then find out if it has not moved till now because of the drive tubes,inner or outer bearing,
(that guys web site)
http://www.stivermotorsports.com/attex_restoration.htm
and for the little holes you may need an ABS repair kit,
you can e-me for A.B.S. repair kit's |
rmiller66
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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David,
Way to go!! The 4x4/jack/chain trick worked like a charm. Now, when I put the new wheels and tires on, I'll just wait for the machine itself to break the thing free (if EVER)
Awesome.
This weekend the old plastic fuel pump broke. I ordered a DL44 Mikuni pulse pump for under $20, it should be an easy swap.
I MAY even get to drive it someday....
Thanks again!
Rick |
rmiller66
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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David,
Way to go!! The 4x4/jack/chain trick worked like a charm. Now, when I put the new wheels and tires on, I'll just wait for the machine itself to break the thing free (if EVER)
Awesome.
This weekend the old plastic fuel pump broke. I ordered a DL44 Mikuni pulse pump for under $20, it should be an easy swap.
I MAY even get to drive it someday....
Thanks again!
Rick |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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ok rick thats great news,
now for them tires you plan to put on your attex,
they will be heaveyer and also harder so it dose get esyer to bend axels, they are not hardend because the old style tires were so soft you could drive over a cat and not hurt it(i tryed it myself) so you will need to keep your new tires soft as you can, 2 - 2 1/2 lbs, i used tubes to maintain this low psi because at low psi dirt can get between tires and rim and cause a slow leak,
to protect my tubes i also had to drill a few screws threw rim that were too short to go threw thr tire, just grab the bead good to prevent rim from turning in tire and ruining tube,
you might one day take your axels to machine shop for hardening or have a new set made at machine shope 2" shorter to fix the extra lenth caused by new style rims and hubs being centerd and old style tires were offset at hub,
be shur to enjoy your attex soon! |
rmiller66
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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OK New issue. Well, old really. We have everything sort of working. Was working on adjusting the t-20, and am a bit lost. They way it is now, the Right hand stick engages the wheels just fine, and brakes them as well, all through about 8 inches of stick travel.
The Left hand stick, however, engages much later in its 8 inches of travel, though seems to brake the wheels fine. I see the 4 plungers and adjustmnent "eyes" on the tranny case, however am a bit confused as to what needs to be tested or adjusted to get both sticks moving the same amount and engaging at least close to the same point in their travel.
Thanks,
Richard |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Richard, Don't know if you are squared away or not. If your laterals both travel the same distance but fully engage at different places, I am guessing you have one set of bands thicker than the other (one side was rebuilt with new bands). If the travel is not the same, the laterals with the most travel will engage later. The plunger bolts screw in to shorten the travel and tighten the bands. Make sure you have neutral at the mid point of your lateral travel and keep the brake bars as straight up and down as you can. Many people adjust just the top bolts and although it seems to work, is not right. I always adjust the bottom plunger bolts first. Final adjustment should provide for about 3/16 of an inch travel from the center of the brake bars from the tranny case with all plungers out as far as they will go. There are other threads with complete instructions for adjusting a T-20.
If your bands are of differing thickness and everything is adjusted properly, it really will not interfere with the operation of the T-20 as it is really two trannys in one unit. |
rmiller
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Fred.
Right on the money! I'll bet it will adjust right up.
Thanks!
Rich |
BrettBBonner
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Update on in vehicle bent axle - My MaxIV with solid steel axles had a severely bent left front axle.
To supplement Pete Cagel's link, I offer the following (Most important to least important):
1. It took a six ton bottle jack to bend the axle back. A 4 ton floor jack wasn't powerful enough.
2. It required a 5/16 inch link chain. A 1/4" chain popped.
3. Use a 4x4 and saw a block that supports the 4x4 between the vehicle and the far wheel. This helps keep the 4x4 roughly level with the vehical.
4. Cut a grove in the bottle jack's top to conform to the axle shaft to help reduce slippage.
5. Cut a pocket in the 4x4 to help keep the jack centered.
Note - The chain will cut into the 4x4. This is OK as it eventually stops and provides a rounded corner for the chain to resist from. But it does require a chain with a chain hook. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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holy cow brett! i have done this axel thing with cheep ass 1 1/2 tone floor jacks and probly the 1/4 chain too!
i use a steal plate under my jacks,
your max-dose it have the splined axels?
how about axel bearing extentions?
i ask because if an axel bent outside a bearing extention thered be only a short stub left to bend back and that would be verry dificult to do for shure,
and i also wanted to know about splined axels cause theres hubub about these being harder than normal solid's but know real proof thus far,
(unless this your config, in wich case we would have some huh) |
brettbonner
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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David -
My Max IV is above the 17K range in the serial number. According to the factory service manual, I believe it has splined axles.
The axle was bent between what I would call the collar and the wheel hub. The collar might be what you would call a bearing extension. I really didn't inspect it closely.
I can tell you that using a 6 ton bottle jack in full load under those circumstances is a bit scary. A sudden failure in the chain could turn a link into a bullet!
I believe the axles in this version of the Max are very, very tough indeed for the sole reason, I never could bend them through sometimes extremely stupid use. I'm not talking about Duck Mud kind of abuse. I'm talking about stupidly driving over a river bank cliff bouncing down about 200' of limestone bolders at about 65 degrees and getting the S--t knocked out of the machine and me! When I reached the bottom and found out I was alive (after I came to consciousness), I was pretty sure the machine was destroyed. But the machine was just fine. In fact, I kind of quit worrying about the machine from a destruction standpoint. Among other notable collisions are full speed into a telephone pole (took the body about 1 year to move back into shape), and rolling down another cliff. Thank Almighty for the factory roll cage and seat belts in all the instances above!
I really don't recall how I bent the axle, but I most likely had 4 hunters, a dog, some guns, and stuff in the vehical and ran over a stuck 4 wheeler or jeep at full speed (I have 2 Jeeps I love - but a Jeep is a Jeep and a Max is - well - a Max!).
The only thing I really worry about on the machine is the maintenance standpoint. Poor maintenance is the most deadly thing to a machine like the Max. |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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i do them in the machine when i havent the time to replace them with another axel and fix them properly on a press laiter, the replacement method may serve you better then because i fix them in the machine at events when theres only say 15 minuts till the next trail ride, well to replace i pull drive bolt from drive tube and axel and remove outer bearing flanget bolts and pull axel and bearing out with outer flanget half, then slide a spair axel in with a bearing and flanget half already on it, i then adgust bearing and lock the coller with the correct spanner wrench and defenatly not with a punch as factory sugests, takes no time at all with exeption of time it takes to prepair,
thats unless yours has the splined axels, look under your floorboards some time, if your axel has teth and sprokets ar on short hubs with teath that mesh with axele congrats that's splines,
and somewhat more dificult to just chainge out than above. |
Jerry R. Nuss
Junior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 66.20.226.37
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 06:27 pm: |
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Does anyone have a good source of the inner bearins for Argo? I have been trying to find the UC206-16 bearings with no luck at all. |
fred sain (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 12.168.170.117
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 02:23 pm: |
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Jerry, That # does not show up in my book. What year, what model Argo do you have, and which inner bearing, axle? or elsewhere. |
Jerry R. Nuss
Junior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 66.20.225.16
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 07:58 pm: |
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Fred,
I have a 1996 Vanguard II and the inner bearings on the idler shaft and inner bearings on the axles are the UC206-16. Now I do not know if they are original. The one on the axle fit ok, the idler shaft was worn to a taper like it had been turning inside the bearing. I slid it onto a new idler shaft and it fit ok, not snug but not sloppy either. The idler shaft has the welded on sprockets and the axles are the splined 1.25" OD and the smaller end with the bearing and bolt hole on the end.
It is possible this is the wrong bearing, do you have a bearing number? The ones I have do have the 62mm spherical outside diameter but the inner ring is more like a 25mm instead of the 30mm I would expect with the UC206 number.
If you have a bearing number I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Jerry |
fred sain (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 12.168.170.104
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 28, 2005 - 10:30 am: |
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Jerry, My part # is 101-35, that is the # out of my parts book. I have those in stock $12.60 each. |
Jerry R. Nuss
Junior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 66.20.226.35
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 04:10 pm: |
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Fred,
Can you check on part #101-41? By the exploded view and number of bearings that number may be what I need? My machine has three different bearings. I have the 101-35 equivalent which should be UC206-20L3. The problem I have having is finding the 101-41. |
Fred Sain (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 12.168.170.174
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 10:34 am: |
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Jerry, I have that bearing in stock, same price, $12.60 I also have the rebuilt axles, (hard surface welded in and machined down. $45.00 |
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