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mike kirouac
New member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 08:56 pm: | 
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I am a former owner of a 2000 max 4. I have just purchased an 08 avenger. over the next few months I will try and give an honest comparison. I havn't taken the avenger out more than just the driveway. I have the efi model with top, tracks, alternator kit. So far at first look the avenger looks much better biult. It has many more options to offer and seems more like a modern day vehicle as far as adding accesories. Thats really all I can say so far. Avenger also has more ground clearence, and with the tracks will add even more. The max had less ground clearence with the tracks. Also the tracks are much more aggressive with a 1" lug. the max tracks were waffle design. I understand that the new max tracks have a lug but not sure how big it is. Ok I will keep updating as I start using the avenger. |
Dennis F. Saskowski
Advanced Member
Username: Sasko
Post Number: 166
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 06:17 am: |
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Mike you can do what you want ,but I can summarize the out come right now.There was a typical post with 100's of replys earlier on this site. It's all about application,cost,registration laws in ones state,personnal preference of low tech vs. high tech and exposure of vehicles to it's conditions it shines in because of its make up/design.Better built??? more finished yes.If you have kept both machines you would have it all pretty much covered with the exception of what a max 2 could do . |
mike kirouac
New member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 10:11 am: |
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I will be riding in the exact same places. I loved the max 4 and only sold it because of the situation I was in at the time. I have read all the posts about ability for years, and I think after a few hours with the avenger I will be able to make a pretty good comparison. I had that max pretty well oufitted. heat included. I know the places where I got stuck and where I went right through. I think it will be fum comparing the two. I found the max very easy to drive and control. So right now I'm not sure I agree with all the posts about the argo easier to drive. But I am new to it so we will see. |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 357
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 11:00 am: |
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Enjoy your new toy. I remember my new Response, assembling supertracks in my sister's backyard in Santa Fe and taking it up in the snow. Everything new and armorall'd. Take lots of pics and savor the moments!
If you can forgive the argo tranny for it's shortcomings and steering effort, you'll be happy. It takes more effort mechanically but less effort from the driver. It does have advantages.. you never lose brakes when shifting, and shifting is effortless, downhill is cake. The stability and ride of the wheelbase best thing about an 8 wheeler. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 438
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 02:35 pm: |
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Hey Roger, you are right on every point. The 8 wheelers have quite a few advantages. The Max IV has a few too. I hope Mr Kirouac doesn't have a headlight pop out. It takes the shine out of the better built part! W. Philip Cox |
mike kirouac
New member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 08:13 pm: |
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almost got the tracks on. strike one up for max these trackes are a pain in the butt. just getting the tire spacers on isn't fun. I'll keep you posted |
mike kirouac
New member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 07:24 am: |
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finished putting the tracks on last night. I found an easy way to put the tracks on so that wasnt bad. Just took it for a spind around the yard. These 18" tracks are nice. and the high lug is great as well. As far as the idler chains they are supposed to be reat tight right? they seem very tight to me is it possible to be to tight from the factory? |
Ron Hutt
Intermediate Member
Username: Ron
Post Number: 56
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 12:16 pm: |
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Mike
Mine were tight when I got the Avenger. Took less than five hours to get them a little streched from use. At 20 hours I made the first adjustment. |
mike kirouac
New member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 05:04 pm: |
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Thanks Ron. Do you have a top on yours? if so do you find it loud in there |
Ron Hutt
Intermediate Member
Username: Ron
Post Number: 57
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 06:16 pm: |
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Mike
Mine does have the top but I have not put it up yet. Just using the windshield for now. I had a Conquest that had a top. It was a little louder with the canopy up but it was not too loud. I know the Avenger runs quieter so I am thinking it should be quieter with the top up. Don't know for sure.
The tracks are great and yes they are a pain to get on with the extentions, tire measurement, etc. Next time will be faster.They go everywhere. |
mike kirouac
Junior Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 04:51 pm: |
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Ok after the first two hours of operation, I have a few more comments. So far the Max seems to be easier to drive. I found it easier to steer the max and less effort on the machine. not that the avenger is difficult. I know I need more time with it. but you do have to give it power when turning. With the max you could keep the throttle the same and just ease up on one stick and it would make a gentle turn. Overall a much smoother ride with the avenger and more comfortable seats. So far not really any difficult terrain so no problem there with the tracks. I will keep posting as I ride more. |
Steve Chansler
Junior Member
Username: Newatver
Post Number: 15
Registered: 09-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 08:54 am: |
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Mike Please keep up posted on this comparison, as hope to buy a new ATV soon, I am thinking about a big
one such as a MAX 4 or a 8x8 ARGO, I am trying to learn as much as possible, went to a dealer last week and drove a Max2, sure was sweet I am comparing it to my old Terra Tiger, which I know is a relic from the past. The dealer did not have a Max 4 to look at however. I am going to drive a new ARGO too, soon as I can find one within a days drive of eastern Iowa Thanks Steve |
mike kirouac
Junior Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 11
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 06:09 pm: |
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I went on my first real ride yesterday. 26 miles. That was the longest ride i have ever been on in one trip. It was a mild trip as far as putting these machines through their paces. Mostly snowmobile trails. The first thing i noticed is that I think the Max might be a little easier to drive. (still might be the getting used to the arge thing). I think the throttle is a little easier on the hand. after a while the hand gets tired on the twist grip. These machines will drift right or left on straight trails. and they require minor corrections. with the max I just kept the same throtle and eased back on one stick and it would make the correction. With the aggo I had to put a little more effort into the correction. On some of the steep hills where my max would spin (i did make it up) the avenger never spun a track. I never drove the older argos but as far as this one goes. you can definately feather the handleber and still be power going to that side. So far I find that it isn't easy to get one side only spinning. The avenger is very comfortable and takes the bumps much better than the max. The seat is awesome. After 4 hours in the seat I was not sore at all. I went through some preety deep snow and had no problem at all. I stepped out once and dropped right through to my knees. The avenger was sunk in about 3". It was 17 degrees out on the way back, at night and it was nice and warm inside the cabin. No heater installed. Now all I need to do is get it a little quieter and figure out some sort of cruise control for the long wide open trails. I did open it up on the way back and got to 17 MPH with tracks. GPS On my max the fastest I ver got is was 19 MPH wheels on tar, slight down grade. So not sure how fast this will go with wheels but I'm thinking probably about the same. I will continue to post unbiased results. |
Jerry Nuss - Illinois MAX dealer
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 609
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 07:58 pm: |
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I am shocked you only got 19 MPH out of the Max, what engine did you have in it and what tire diameter? |
mike kirouac
Junior Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 13
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 05:09 am: |
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I had the 18 hp 26" tires. I tried it many times. i was using the gps which is very accurate. I tested it in the car just to make sure. Not sure if I had a belt problem or not |
Steve Chansler
Junior Member
Username: Newatver
Post Number: 18
Registered: 09-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 10:42 am: |
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Jerry, I was trying to find your website, the one listed on your profile does not work Steve  |
Jerry Nuss - Illinois MAX dealer
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 610
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 12:39 pm: |
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OK I need to check that out. My site is www.bigmuddyatv.com |
Len Cater
Intermediate Member
Username: Lcater
Post Number: 61
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 02:40 pm: |
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The drifting is usually related to air pressure in your tires or of course crowning on the trail. I found the new handlebar style easier than the sticks. At least I can put my left hand on the throttle, and steer, while giving my right hand a rest. |
mike kirouac
Junior Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 17
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 03:17 pm: |
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yes it is very easy to steer, but seems more harsh on the machine. Don't get me wrong, so far I love the avenger. I am just trying to do unbiased comparison |
MO Max & Argo Dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Brandon_price
Post Number: 259
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 03:17 pm: |
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Steve Chansler, You can see many models of the Argo at Gene's Argo Sales in Crawfordsville, Iowa. He has a lot in stock. Call him at 319-658-2315. |
mike kirouac
Junior Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 18
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 05:42 pm: |
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Continuation of comparison. I was doing my first transmission oil change. on the avenger. very easy, i fount it much easier than the max 4. i have been reading about how much easier the max is to work on. Now i havn't done much maintainence yet but everything seems very easy to get at. the floor boards come right up front and back and the fire wall comes right out. the max had 4 screws i had to take out. I had the avenger up on blocks and there is no doubt you can stop one side very easy while the other side drives. so that is a reality. so i am gathering from this that allthough i think they will go the same places, as seen from the humphrey ride I went on back in 02. Plus the many videos i have seen. I think it might require more skill for the operator than the max does. as far as the max went I just had to make sure as much as possible that I took what ever it was straight on I would have 6 wheel drive. More to follow. |
Ron Hutt
Intermediate Member
Username: Ron
Post Number: 60
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 09:11 pm: |
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Hey guys
After hearing Mike talk about the difficulty with the throttle configuration on the Argo I have to say that I agree that the throttle is a lot of work on long rides with the Argo. I found a very easy and very comfortable solution. I had the dealer put a throttle control on the handle bar like a snowmobile, It is a little different in that it is a thumb throttle that fits your thumb perfectly, There is no tork on the wrist at all. Compared to my last Argo it is no effort at all. Argo should put these on all their machines. It cost me $80.00 USA to get it installed. TRY IT YOU WILL LIKE IT!!!!! |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 360
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 09:23 pm: |
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You're bringing back memories I long forgot of a stock machine. My throttle takes almost no effort to turn and has about a 1/3 less travel that stock. And no slack. My '73 Harley Sportster had the worst throttle cable I've seen. It was a solid wire cable, like your lawn mower. Talk about effort to twist. It was hard to turn and stayed where you put it. |
mike kirouac
Junior Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 19
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 05:11 am: |
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Hey Ron, do you have any photos of that throttle? It's not so much the effort, the throttle is very easy to turn, it's just that after a while having to keep you wrist twisted gets tiring. |
Ron Hutt
Intermediate Member
Username: Ron
Post Number: 61
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 11:13 am: |
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I wasn't thinking straight when I said it was a thumb control. It is used by the front finger and is real easy to use. The grips were changed out for better looks.
Ron |
mike kirouac
Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 20
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 03:13 pm: |
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Thanks for the pic, that looks nice. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 459
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 05:21 pm: |
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Ron, A pic. is always helpful. Good to know about the throttle option. I like the red grip on the red machine. I use a little rubber bungee for a throttle lock in the water or in neutral when winching for a faster idle.
Roger, As close as I can guess the throttle on my 2007 Avenger efi is a Quarter turn from all off to WOT.
 |
Ron Hutt
Intermediate Member
Username: Ron
Post Number: 62
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 06:40 pm: |
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Hi All
This throttle arrangement has a small nut that I put on for a "Cruise" control type situation and I can use it also for throttling up when using the winch. Really easy. There is no fatigue what so ever when using the finger throttle.
Hey phillip, have you owned other Argos and if so what is the EFI like in power comparison? The only mistake I made with my machine is not buying the EFI, I wonder about the power difference.
Ron |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 461
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 07:05 pm: |
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I can't help you with that question Ron, I bought a Max IV,25hp new and now this Avenger. I ride with other Avengers and they say the efi power is noticeable but I have nothing to compare to. Handy to have the "cruise control" on your new " Squeeze Throttle". |
Ron Hutt
Intermediate Member
Username: Ron
Post Number: 63
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 07:15 pm: |
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I wasn't thinking very well when I purchased the Avenger, I really could use the EFI model because I go anywhere from 2850 feet to 8000 feet in altitude. It is jetted for above 3000 feet but I always wonder about performance when you change that much. I also bought the slow speed tranny, it is not the speed demon my other one was but I have learned with the slower speed that it's the journey and not the destination. |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 463
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 07:29 pm: |
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Yes Ron ,the efi is an advantage when changing altitudes. I have a prob. on the Max,running frozen lakes with the widow open.I freeze my choke a lot with flying snow. Nice on the EFI. not to have a choke. I wish my 2007 had the hand parking brake that the 2008s have, especially when winching other people with the wireless remote . |
Richard Johnson
Junior Member
Username: Dick_johnson
Post Number: 12
Registered: 07-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 11:17 pm: |
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Richards Relics has a thumb throttle. I haven't used it though.
http://members.aye.net/%7Erclark/details_parts/argo_thumb-throttle.html |
mike kirouac
Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 22
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 02, 2008 - 12:19 pm: |
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Phill, does that bungee act like a cruise control? do you hook it to something? |
Dennis F. Saskowski
Advanced Member
Username: Sasko
Post Number: 168
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 12:13 pm: |
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Philip, Your choke is most likely freezing at the engine brkt where its connected. Had the same problem with mine on frozen lakes and overnight in the woods. Kohler makes a debri plt. which covers the whole linkage. Or you can make one out of sheet metal connected to the air cleaner box. It holds heat in and keeps the linkage thawed Will post photo if needed.Have fun at the dinner? |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 464
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 02:58 pm: |
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Dennis-My wife and I really enjoyed the dinner. Thanks .Was nice to see you. I will try the Kohler plate. My engine has a hood over it to catch the heat and direct it into the cab. When the choke freezes it makes the original start up difficult.I have never had it freeze up again on the same day though.
Mike, yes the little bungee goes around the grip then around the adjacent handle bar and tuck the wooden ball between the two strands,-bingo! |
mike kirouac
Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 23
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 08:40 pm: |
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went on another 2 hour ride tonight. after insulating the fire wall and engine hood and both floors it was better. Still had plenty of heat. I brought my good gps garmin nuvi with me because it is more accurate. I got 17.6 mph top speed with tracks. dont think that was to bad considering the fastest I had ever gotten with my max was 19.6 with tires. Not sure how fast I will get with tires. I ordered a cruise control from jc whitney for motorcycles. I'll let you know how it works once i get it installed. the twist grip gets tiring after a while. I have to admit the efi seems like it has unlimited power. Very comfortable seat and nice overall ride so far. |
mike kirouac
Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 36
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 06:47 pm: |
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couple more comments. Went for another ride, this time with 3 of up. wife and daughter. Got 17.8 mph top speed. no difference with more load. going up hills didn't even notice any difference. This machine is so smooth compared to my max IV. Also changed the transmission fluid tonight and found it much easier than the max. I'll keep everyone posted. |
mike kirouac
Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 37
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 07:56 pm: |
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just went for another ride. the snow is very soft now and deep. I sunk in over a foot with the tracks. I was going up a moderate hill that was about 500 feet long. Dont think i would have made it with my max. I would have definately been dragging bottom and would have lost traction. I also bought a cruise control from jc whitney. it works awesome. just flip a switch with your thumb and it's on. It holds very good. |
Chris Chwaz
Member
Username: Buffalomax
Post Number: 33
Registered: 03-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 10:54 am: |
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Mike you say the snow was soft and deep ,how deep,and has anyone road on it ,I know my buffalo needs to follow a snowmobile.It cant cut its own path.Thats why I too am looking at the argos I was thinking if a argo frontier could do all the avenger can do.The avenger is out of my price ranger ,but looks to be a really nice machine.I would be using mine mostly in the woods,I do maple syruping and we always have three or four feet of snow this time of the year here in the north east.More info like you have been doing is great .Thanks |
Jerry Nuss - Illinois MAX dealer
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 645
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 11:26 am: |
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Chris you have a heavy machine, do you have the wide rubber factory tracks on it? Are you loading up the Buffalo with equipment and syrup? |
mike kirouac
Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 38
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 05:09 pm: |
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Chris, the snow was probably 3 feet deep. it was a fresh trail and the bottom was rubbing a little. It was very soft snow. I had no problem at all. I'm not sure if the new max tracks would be able to go or not. but the ones i had definatly would have just spun out. Additionally I think my max would have bottomed out. I have a little over 12" ground clearance with the avenger. And if I remember correctly with my max and tracks I had less than 7" clearance |
Chris Chwaz
Member
Username: Buffalomax
Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 11:22 am: |
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Jerry no I have a set of plastic traks,so they clog and are only 12 inches wide.Yes I do load the buffalo up about 400 lb in the back and then me.Mike all I can say is wow,I did not know the avenger had so much groung clearance.I thought the frontier had alot at 9 inches,the buffalo has about 6 with these tracks.I wonder how much Iam going to have save up for now? |
Jerry Nuss - Illinois MAX dealer
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 646
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 02:14 pm: |
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Here is an interesting Avenger article:
http://www.theoutdoorquest.com/argo_avenger_8x8_review.htm |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 488
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 12:39 am: |
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Trying to make a click link to Jerry's articlehttp://www.theoutdoorquest.com/argo_avenger_8x8_review.htm |
mike kirouac
Member
Username: Kovac
Post Number: 42
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 06:29 pm: |
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went for another ride. this one was a nightmare. I was going on the snowmobile trails, and came accross a flooded trail. I took this same trail on Friday and went accross with no problem. this time the water was higher and it looked like a slight current. Once I got in and started floating the current took me. I positioned mysekf facing against the current but I couldn't go forward at all. I got washed up against some ice so I figured I would try backing up on the ice. I started up and kept breaking through. After a little while I couldn't go forward or backward. I was stuck about 100 feet from the trail or any shore. there were big ice chunks all around me so I could not climb on them. Thank goodness a guy cam over with a tracktor and threw a rope to me. I was finally able to get out after a couple of hours. |
Shop Talk: Tech Tips and Q&A section