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Richard L. Runyard
Junior Member
Username: Fuzzman
Post Number: 19
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 138.163.0.41
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 12:16 pm: | 
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I bought a used Argo Conquest recently, I've been going thru it replacing the worn chains and bearings. We looked at the engine, pulled the air cleaner and the backdraft tube coming out of the top of the carb, there is a fluid dripping down into the carb every few seconds causing this white smoke and making the engine run rough when it drips. What is this caused by and how do I fix it? |
Dennis F. Saskowski
Advanced Member
Username: Sasko
Post Number: 105
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 68.64.195.56
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 05:16 am: |
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Where is the white smoke coming out of?If out the exhaust pipe water /anti freeze is getting into the combustion chamber,out the carb when motor stalls it's unburned fuel atomizing in the manifold/carb.If dribbling in the throat of the carb while running float level incorrect/needle vale not seating( dirty or worn) or idle fuel/air screw seat is worn usually from over tightening in the past.that backdraft tube you speak of,could that be a bowl vent,if it is wet with fuel or dripping float level is high or stuck float.Make sure that tube is not pinched |
Richard L. Runyard
Member
Username: Fuzzman
Post Number: 22
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 138.162.5.13
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 10:05 am: |
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I thank you for your input. I also ran this by the local mechanic down the street and my brother who is quite keen w/ mechanical things said the same thing. Float! And I'm inclinded to believe you guys, that is the next route I'm taking. The draft tube is that little 3/8" dia. black draft tube that hovers over the throat of the carb, yeah I think it's the float vent tube. I'm not a carb man. I can fix damn near anything else though. We're working on it. Thank you much kind sir. Fuzzy |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 246
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.128.101.20
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 06:58 pm: |
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I've never worked on a conquest but would guess that tube might be crankcase ventilation. If it drips every few seconds, stick you finger in there and sample it. Smell and look like engine coolant or gas? Because you said white smoke, Dennis and I are thinking antifreeze. (if it's out the exhaust pipe) |
Erich Kelter
Member
Username: Fisherman
Post Number: 39
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 131.137.245.197
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 09:20 pm: |
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There's a black hose/tube that comes up from underneath the carb, it's the crankcase vent to recirc the crankcase vapor into the carb and burn it. The overflow tube(brass) is on the driver side of the carb, points towards the rear of the carb. White smoke is generally from antifreeze and smells really sweet, makes you gag it's so sweet. |
Richard L. Runyard
Member
Username: Fuzzman
Post Number: 23
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 138.163.0.42
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 09:56 am: |
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This weekend is when we're going to investigate the problem along with replacing some chains & bearings. I have checked the oil, no water and the water, no oil. I doesn't seem like it's losing any coolant. Ok, here...it only blows out this smoke when I'm rolling along at a pretty good pace, 3/4 throttle in High and about every 15-20 seconds, this smoke comes bellowing out of the exhaust and the engine bogs down a bit...then revs right back up to 3/4 throttle and goes for another 15-20 seconds and the same thing all over again. Haven't noticed any smoke or bogging down at lower speeds though. |
Bob Eells
New member
Username: Bob_eells
Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 72.35.50.20
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 10:19 am: |
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Richard,
Since your smoke problem is happening at a higher rpm, I suggest you check you engine oil level. A level that is too high(overfull) will cause the engine to burn off foam created by crankshaft splash. Another possibility is if you are using multi-weight oil ie 10-30. My experience with air cooled engines is that they seem to like straight weight oil better than multi-weight. |
Richard L. Runyard
Member
Username: Fuzzman
Post Number: 24
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 138.163.0.41
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 10:45 am: |
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The engine oil level is within the parameters of the manufacturers spec. As for what type of oil is presently in it...I don't know. I haven't changed the oil out cause it looks so clean. (that and I just got this vehicle a couple weekends ago) And presently the conquest is up on blocks getting ready for a bearings and chain transplant. |
Erich Kelter
Member
Username: Fisherman
Post Number: 40
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 74.119.175.102
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 06:34 pm: |
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Okay, after reading the last bit of info" ..it only blows out this smoke when I'm rolling along at a pretty good pace, 3/4 throttle in High and about every 15-20 seconds, this smoke comes bellowing out of the exhaust and the engine bogs down a bit...then revs right back up to 3/4 throttle and goes for another 15-20 seconds and the same thing all over again. Haven't noticed any smoke or bogging down at lower speeds though."
Mine does the same thing, highly suspect it's a carbeurater problem, mines an air cooled Bullsh...ya.. 18 Vangard motor, so no coolant to be burned there, oil level is slightly less than full. You can actually see the gas being spit out of the carb while running with the engine cover off and air filter cover off. I had that carb cleaned, there is absolutely no crud/varnish/gum/nothing left in there. I believe they are just a bad carb. |
Richard L. Runyard
Member
Username: Fuzzman
Post Number: 25
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 138.163.0.43
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 10:22 am: |
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I believe it's carb related also. The guy I bought it from said he previously had carb problems but had got it fixed. Apparently not. Which leads me to believe it time for a whole new carb. OUCH! |
Richard L. Runyard
Member
Username: Fuzzman
Post Number: 26
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 138.163.0.43
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 10:23 am: |
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I believe it's carb related also. The guy I bought it from said he previously had carb problems but had got it fixed. Apparently not. Which leads me to believe it's time for a whole new carb. OUCH! |
Fred Sowerwine
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 246
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 10:58 am: |
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Before you guys throw in the towel on your carbs, try some Conklin "4 Power" (do a search) or find the link in a thread elsewhere on this site. It is the very best stuff I have ever used for cleaning out fuel systems. I have not had to tear one down or have a carb worked on since I have been using it. Run one tank full of it through your system and you will think you have a new machine. |
Fred Sowerwine
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 247
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 11:10 am: |
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I probably should re-phrase that last comment. Run one tank full of the "4 Power" MIXTURE.... |
Richard L. Runyard
Member
Username: Fuzzman
Post Number: 27
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 138.163.0.41
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 11:41 am: |
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Fred, sounds like an easy fix and worth the effort, if the cost is reasonable. I'd rather spend a few bucks on a quick fix than to spend hundreds and achieve the same results. I'm willing to try almost anything once. Bearing in mind of course that I do have some common sense.
4 Power, I'll give it a shot. Here's another question. What kind of chain lube do you use? |
Fred Sowerwine
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 248
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 12:18 pm: |
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Richard, I use a product called "Protecta" made by SFR Corporation. You can do a search for it also or a link for it , too is elsewhere on this site. |
Richard L. Runyard
Member
Username: Fuzzman
Post Number: 28
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 138.163.0.43
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 01:19 pm: |
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I plug in 4 power and get eveything but what I'm looking for. Don't happen to have a link do you? |
Jerry R. Nuss
Senior Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 504
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 70.106.200.61
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 01:52 pm: |
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http://www.conklin.com/pg.asp?p=672 |
Richard L. Runyard
Member
Username: Fuzzman
Post Number: 32
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 138.163.0.43
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 02:02 pm: |
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Ok, I put some of this 4power stuff in my gas tank, finished up the bearings and chains and took it out for a 2 hour spin. Still produces a cloud of white smoke at full throttle every 15 seconds or so. Looks like I'll be getting a carb kit from the local Lawn & garden equip. dealer and popping the top off the carb. |
Fred Sowerwine
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 249
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 03:21 pm: |
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Richard, You didn't say what mixture you used (of 4 Power). I spray some straight into the carb first (put some in anything that will make a spray - used to come in a spray can). I then use two ounces in a quart of gas for the 1st go. Might repeat with another quart. Then run a tank full at the 2 ounces per gallon ratio to clean out the whole system.
Of course, your problem could be other than gunk. |
Richard L. Runyard
Member
Username: Fuzzman
Post Number: 34
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 138.163.0.37
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 01:13 pm: |
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This may sound dumb, but what has spraying anything into the throat of the carb going to do for the float? I used half a can of 4power for half a tank of gas on my Conquest. After burning off about half of that 1/2 tank of gas, there is no change in the white smoke problem. It still billows a cloud of white smoke at full throttle, every 15-20 seconds of use. "at full throttle"
Does not seem to do this at lower engine speeds. |
Rogersmith
Advanced Member
Username: Rogersmith
Post Number: 253
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.234.105.145
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 02:32 pm: |
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That you call it "white" smoke gets the attention of some of us. As mentioned, rich mixture is a sooty gray/black. Oil is blue. Coolant burns a steamy white. So does automatic transmission fluid, really white. If that drip you see coincides with the smoke, examine that fluid to see what it is. |
Fred Sowerwine
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 250
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 03:00 pm: |
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Richard, If your problem is mechanical, the 4 power will do nothing. It is only good if it is a gunk (bad gas, bad fuel line, plugged jet, etc.) problem. Carburetors can be tough and even some experts have to do it twice. I for one, hate to work on or have a carb worked on -- that's why I like 4 power, but it won't solve everything; especially it can't fix a poor repair job.
To answer your question, I use 4 power down the throat (before and while the engine is running) because it works the same as either, eating up bad stuff as it goes through. It will have no effect on a float that has been set wrong, but it will free up one that is not working freely because of sludge. |
Erich Kelter
Member
Username: Fisherman
Post Number: 41
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 74.119.175.102
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 10:23 pm: |
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Fred:, not trying to start a pee contest or anything even remotely close, however, like Richard says, spraying 4power or any other carb cleaner down the throat goes no where except right through the throat, into the intake manifold and onwards into the cylinders. It can't go "back upstream" into the carb via the jet, motor running or not and clean the internal parts of the carb(floatbowl, float, needle, seats, etc). For that to happen you have to "open" the carb, take off the top, remove the gas from the bowl area and float and then introduce the cleaner in that area and let it sit there for quite some time for it to dissolve the crud and gum. As for my particular case, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe by strange misfortune the governor is not set up right. If I give it gas by turning the throttle plate, it hesitates, coughs and snorts, sprays a bit of gas back out the carb. Now, if I touch the governor linkage where the spring is attached, there is no hesitation or spraying at all. This spring is about 1 and 1/4 inch long and there is a bit, maybe 3/16 of play from where the throttle engages to when the governor moves. Maybe a problem there? Thanks. |
Fred Sowerwine
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 251
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 12:43 am: |
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Erich, No problem as far as I'm concerned. I'm not much of a mechanic and I seldom give advice on what to do with an engine problem especially carbs and governors (I take all my motor headaches to the local small engine repair shop). I won't argue with what you said except that I know 4 Power in the gas will clean up a fuel system if it is just deteriorating gas that has caused the problem. It's done the job for me too many times to think it is just coincidence. It is not an instant fix. |
Erich Kelter
Member
Username: Fisherman
Post Number: 42
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 74.119.175.102
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 09:01 am: |
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Fred: ya, I know what I would like to do with some carbs, wack the guy about the ears that designed it. Not to mention on the 18 B&S, it appears you have to remove the whole engine shroud, pull start and all to be able to get to the nut on the flywheel side of the motor to take the carb off. I swear those guys who designed it must have had their training at GM. |
Richard L. Runyard
Member
Username: Fuzzman
Post Number: 37
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 138.163.0.37
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 09:40 am: |
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Before I added the 4power, I did drain the tank and put new fuel in. I've run the engine mostly at 3/4 or less throttle and have had no smoke screens. When we had the air cleaner off, the fluid dripping out of the draft tube directly above the carb throat looked thin like gas, colored like oil...but not thick like oil. I checked the oil, it's clean and has the viscosity of oil. No loss or gain in oil level in the engine that can be detected. The anti-freeze is also clean, no gain or loss detected. I didn't mean to open up a can or worms, but this has me puzzled. |
Erich Kelter
Member
Username: Fisherman
Post Number: 43
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 74.119.175.102
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 11:17 am: |
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Okay, it can't hurt to take one more stab at it, how about condensation from inside the crankcase, good old water, H2O, that doesn't get burned off except blowing up through the crankcase vent into the carb(black hose) |
Richard L. Runyard
Member
Username: Fuzzman
Post Number: 40
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 138.163.0.42
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 04:51 pm: |
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Ok, I'll do an oil change this weekend. Process of elimation. |
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