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justin cogdill
New member
Username: Max2muddin
Post Number: 9
Registered: 01-2007
Posted From: 64.6.44.2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 09:35 pm: | 
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how do i know if the t-20 transmission is low on fluid? also if i sunk my max2 will there be any major problems to come if i change the oil and stuff and another question... will the transmission take on water or is it sealed off? thanks to all |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 229
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 03:53 am: |
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The lower left plug is the fill to plug. The tranny will take on a little water (if sunk) through the upper (right hand plug) as it is vented. Don't ever switch them. The lower plug is also slightly magnetized to draw any metal flakes.
One needs to change all fluids if a machine sinks to be safe. |
justin cogdill
Junior Member
Username: Max2muddin
Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2007
Posted From: 64.6.44.2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 07:51 pm: |
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thank you for your help ill be sure to change all fluids thanks - JUSTIN |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 261
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 199.246.2.9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 09:03 pm: |
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Hey Justin, you make it sound like you're planning to sink your Max 11. Or are you just planning a really fast trip down a long hill with water at the bottom? W. Philip Cox |
justin cogdill
Junior Member
Username: Max2muddin
Post Number: 11
Registered: 01-2007
Posted From: 64.6.44.2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 11:06 pm: |
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ha ha i messed up on the message and just realized it... i already sunk it i was going down the middle of a creek and went to climb out and from the surface on the water the incline didnt look steep but under the water it was a straight drop off so i went to climb out and the rear vents on the body went underwater and within maybe 5 - 10sec half of it was underwater and the motor died so the only thing to do was bail out and watch it sink...  it was facing straight up and down with the nose tords the air and the water was to the dash.... so then i got two friends we all attached tow ropes and pulled it out (3 hours in freezing water + pulling up muddy hills + a 750lb water filled max2 = one heck of a job and one terrible night) not to mention that it was dark when this happened so.... theres my story haha trust me i will do my best to never sink this thing again!!! -JUSTIN |
Derek Hubbard
Intermediate Member
Username: Justmax
Post Number: 51
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 75.179.52.62
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 11:23 pm: |
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Hey Justin
Three hour in freezing water WOW. Now that shows the Love one has for their Max. The courage to step up the plate and get the job done. Oh by the way I would change all the fluids twice to be on the safe side.
Derek |
philip w.cox
Advanced Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 262
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 199.246.2.9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 01:31 am: |
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Thanks for the story Justin. It,s not like the rest of us are all rocket scientists, it,s nice to hear someone elses disaster for a change. Better luck in the future. W. philip |
justin cogdill
Junior Member
Username: Max2muddin
Post Number: 12
Registered: 01-2007
Posted From: 64.6.44.2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 12:58 pm: |
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well i changed all of the fluids and started it and it actually ran really good but about 5 minutes into the ride it started acting up it will rev up pretty good but when i rev it up it revs up really slow and kind of bogged it will still drive like that but when i go to turn it loses all power and acts like its going to stall...?? |
Derek Hubbard
Intermediate Member
Username: Justmax
Post Number: 52
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 75.179.52.62
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 01:24 pm: |
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It sounds like you till have some water in the fuel system. Also check all your wires and connections for water.
Derek |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 230
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 01:45 pm: |
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Sounds like a bad plug. Could be water, but it should backfire - a little HEET or other product that removes moisture would help. This is the perfect place for Conklin's 4 power. All the goings on could have small particles in the carb. |
Rob Sandera
New member
Username: Rob_sandera
Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 4.91.133.249
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 03:54 pm: |
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Wow what a story at least you didn’t die in some freezing water. You’ll want to probably drop the carb bowl as I have found it very difficult to get water out with dry gas etc. You have to have the isopropyl water remover and it still only does so much. If the Engine was running when water his it ya may have bent some pushrods or possibly even sheared the flywheel key. But I had a 18 HP Mower once that drove me crazy with water trapped in the carb I finally popped the bowl cover and there it was I exerted it with a paper towel blew out the carb and it was fine. They just don’t make gas they way they used to and on my tractor I have a water sucker I use on the tank every so often cause the dry gas just won’t cut it. Look for the red heet with isopropyl water remover not the yellow can. Adding Marvel Mystery Oil to gas will clean carb and tank up good too. |
Rob Sandera
New member
Username: Rob_sandera
Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 4.91.133.249
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 03:55 pm: |
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Wow what a story at least you didn’t die in some freezing water. You’ll want to probably drop the carb bowl as I have found it very difficult to get water out with dry gas etc. You have to have the isopropyl water remover and it still only does so much. If the Engine was running when water his it ya may have bent some pushrods or possibly even sheared the flywheel key. But I had a 18 HP Mower once that drove me crazy with water trapped in the carb I finally popped the bowl cover and there it was I absorbed it with a paper towel blew out the carb and it was fine. They just don’t make gas they way they used to and on my tractor I have a water sucker I use on the tank every so often cause the dry gas just won’t cut it. Look for the red heet with isopropyl water remover not the yellow can. Adding Marvel Mystery Oil to gas will clean carb and tank up good too. |
steve chunn
Junior Member
Username: Semper_fi
Post Number: 15
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.197
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 10:27 pm: |
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Can anoyone explain fairly precisely how the shift sticks on the T-20 function?
push forward to go forward?
pull back to slow down?
mid position is for?
Is there a variable transmission response for light stick pushes?
thanks
steve |
Rob Sandera
Member
Username: Rob_sandera
Post Number: 24
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 4.91.129.147
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 05:07 am: |
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Well you got them right the mid position is a coasting position or neutral. You can wind up an engine and jam the sticks forward and you'll probably peel out or pull a wheelie. It's a little hard on the trans but if your running the right tire to start with will probably spin and grip smoothly. As far as variable speed your basically slipping something to do that. Generally in a high speed app. like a 40 Hp Attex if you are wide open and want to coast the best way is taper the throttle back gradually and pretty much the same on the sticks. A skillful driver knows the limits of the machine if it pulls a little to one side etc. usually tire pressures and tire circumference all play a part on how the machine tracks when it free wheels. If you were to hit 45 MPH and sharply let of the gas and sticks and were on loose or slippery ground you may loose a little control or get a hairy ride. You see sometimes a driver can trade machines and still win in a jamboree. That's cause they have the fine touch on the controls and can usually keep all wheels driving a little better then the next guy. You want power on for steering so if you let off to fast and have to curve you may pull to the side at the wrong time trying to correct. case in point watch the crash into telephone pole on Goggle. It looks like high speed and rapid let off and machine veered to the right into a pole. Some of the old machines really took guts because when you were going to crash you had to floor it. That's how I rolled a trail boss I kept flooring it to steer but was going down hill. When it over revved and was maxed out I had not more steering and the trans was out of adjustment so it pulled when you let off. The result I ran out of space had the engine screeching to about 7 grand down a huge hill and got a 50 plus mph roll over and was lucky the shape of the body saved my life. Stick time and experience is everything when going fast. If you have hills to go down go slow or get a roll bar. I didn't have one and I was trapped digging a hole for air. My friends saw the accident and flipped the machine over. I remember the hissing of dripping on the muffler and being scared I was going to be burned alive. |
steve chunn
Junior Member
Username: Semper_fi
Post Number: 16
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.8
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 11:11 am: |
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Rob - I am working on a attex chief that I have never ridden (in fact I have never ridden a 6x6). I am replacing, rebuilding or improving all of the components. I will soon finish replacing all of the sprockets, bearings, shafts, chains and axle hubs with new and/or better components. I am looking ahead to the steering and it occured to me that a joystick driving linear actuators might be employed to get rid of the sticks that will be in my way. So push ahead to engage, pull back for neutral or coast. If you pull sticks back toward you what does it try to do? Is reverse a pull back to you? Thanks for your answers.
Steve |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer
Advanced Member
Username: Fred4dot
Post Number: 235
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 216.166.168.53
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 01:18 pm: |
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Steve, I will try to summarize how the T-20 operates.
There is a forward gear and a reverse gear (shifting can be hard and you must never force it as you will just bend the linkage or damage things internally - body rocking with the brake engaged will line up the sprockets so it slips in gear) and it is important to have at firmly in gear as it can pop out of gear (really bad on a downhill) and popping out of gear can damage the internal workings of the tranny. One should never shift on an incline as the machine shifted into neutral has no means of control except the auxiliary brake.
In forward gear with the laterals all the way forward, it is fully engaged in drive. Pulling a lever back just a little will partially engage the drive band allowing one side to go slower than the other for minor turns (I call this slip steering). With the laterals in mid position, you are in tranny neutral (free wheeling because no band has contact with the internal drums) which is different from having the tranny itself in neutral. Still in forward gear, when the laterals come past the mid point, the brakes begin to engage. Partial engagement will allow you to slow down easily and allow one to retain control when going slowly downhill. When the laterals are all the way back, the brakes are fully engaged and the wheels will not turn.
When the tranny is in reverse gear, and the laterals are all the way forward, the brakes are fully engaged. (the machine will not roll backward (it will roll forward and should always be parked with the nose uphill) and is why the Max uses forward anchored spring loaded laterals) As the laterals move back, the bands loosen and when the sticks are in mid travel, you are again in internal tranny neutral with no bands touching the drive drums. As the levers are pulled further back, the bands begin to engage and when the laterals are as far back as they can go, the bands are in full drive position.
The travel between laterals (one all the way forward and one all the way back should be between six and eleven inches (I adjust to seven). Each side is completely individually controlled by the operator. |
Rob Sandera
Member
Username: Rob_sandera
Post Number: 25
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 4.91.131.44
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 01:21 pm: |
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Pull back is braking . For reverse you shift the trans into reverse first the trans also has a neutral shift that works good for warming up the engine etc. I thought about using solenoid shifters etc like you want to do. The only problem is if you had a high speed failure of one your going over in a hurry. Generally manually mechanically operated controls direct connected are going to be the stout setup. If you were handicapped though and needed the other control in an Attex I would then downsize the Engine to a 4 stroke and lower speed and improved quietness and reliability. I believe Richard commented before on some of the right track that Attex was one before they went out. If I remember some of it was a steering change they were playing with to go to a single control or something. Probably the two best Attex re-storer collectors I’ve ever known are Don Kinyon and Guss Marone. Both have new looking machines anyone would be proud of so maybe they can help you with your restore and give you some tips and tricks.
The Attex design in good shape is not all bad, the abs bodies are weak for crashes and would benefit form a skid plate and front panel and the pin going through the axle could probably be improved. The cup washers Richard has will help, 4130 chrom moly axles can be built, a precision ream and half thousand press fit on the pin with a chrome moly rod bolt or pin may also help. Its just one of those parts you should periodically inspect for wear or slop. |
Rob Sandera
Member
Username: Rob_sandera
Post Number: 26
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 4.91.131.44
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 01:22 pm: |
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continued... I haven’t studied there particular setup as I don’t drive my Attex a lot but if I made a change would probably go to an axle with a spline and not a locking collar bearing but sort of stout retaining collar or stainless wired or pinned castle nut. I’ve raced different boats in my days and radio control boats and held a National Championship. Things that are reliable and bulletproof are what gives a competitive edge. Expect a lot of vibration and shock. You’ll see things like stainless steel crack. Go hit a locking collar bearing and axle with a sledgehammer then hit a light press fit setup that is held in place with spacers shim and a stout locking setup on the end. You’ll find a big chip out of the locking collar bearing. The other one if you were Hercules you may have made a flat spot somewhere but you wouldn’t have made it fail to loose a race. While locking collars are used all over today etc. They were really a cost effective thing with a easy serviceability generally unless a axles is bent bad or something Hence you see the difference in a Military build, a mans life may depend on making it back to base even in a damaged but usable form, where a sport consumer build hey is a a low cost serviceable item. On snowmobiles a lot of time if it didn’t come off easy you cut a slot almost all the way through with a cut off wheel and wack it with a chisel to crack and expand or shatter the piece. My brothers into golfcarts more now and calls my six wheelers junk LOL watch media player movie of his hair brain way of testing a power clutch and 2 cylinder engine kit http://dixiesalesandservice.com/video/MVI_0043.AVI he chained it to a telephone pole and burned the tires. It’s a stupid test but you don’t see a belt burning up. Our theory has always been if it cant take abuse it aint no dam good anyway and trial and error usually results in a hilarious story. |
steve chunn
Junior Member
Username: Semper_fi
Post Number: 17
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.8
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 04:27 pm: |
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Thanks for the replies guys-
I have a good idea how the t20 works now. I read almost all of the posts and learn something new every time. Today I am working on installing 4 bolt cast iron flange bearings on the outers. I have a .5" aluminum adapater plate between the body and the new bearing. I am bolting the plate using bolts from inside the frame, thru the body and into the .5" plate. I then have a 1.5" hole drilled in the aluminum plate and then I bolt on the cast iron flange bearing. Should be much tougher than the orginal flangetees. I am using 42" lenght of 1" TGP shaft to align my bearing locations. The inboad bearings are presently the orignal type 2 bolt flangettes and are used strictly to locate the outer bearing locations.
Anyway - I got the right side outer bolted on nicely and then went to the left side. I notice that the 1" shaft is not centered in the body hole. This means that the bearing alignment is not going to work. Is it possible that the factory did not create bearing locations that were true aligned from one side to the other? If I put in the regular lenght axle, I'm sure I can move the axle to orient it in the center of the body hole, but this just seems wrong to have to do. Any comments on this problem?
thanks
steve |
Rob Sandera
Member
Username: Rob_sandera
Post Number: 27
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 4.91.128.158
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 05:44 pm: |
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Hmm
Have you checked the frame to see if its still square? In a production environment though any company may produce something that’s right on and something that’s not. When you blue print engine blocks of Briggs for go-karts you may see this a lot. Ones perfect ones all messed up etc. I would start with the frame and maybe if you have some kind of laser level you can check square across the axle centerline or check the body. I do know some aged fiberglass bodies warp etc sometimes. You can ask somebody if you are a member in the monster 6x6yahoogroup Don Kinyon has been around attexes since the early days of racing and does frame up restorations he would probably know what your seeing. |
steve chunn
Junior Member
Username: Semper_fi
Post Number: 18
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.8
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 07:03 pm: |
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I was Iming with the Iaasac Eisenman this afternoon and he indicated that the way the frames were built my expectation of exact alignment by using a single long shaft was not realistic because the frames were all hand made and were subject to variation. I am just going to align it by using the 2 standard length axles and hope for the best.??
Steve |
Rob Sandera
Member
Username: Rob_sandera
Post Number: 28
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 4.91.128.31
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 12:56 am: |
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I had to hire back in a tool shop as their welder and do that job for awhile before I could get back on a Bridgeport Mill. I learned allot more about tig welding heat treat and production wire welding. The only ways to weld square is to either have a heavy welding table with all work clamped tight or clamp everything to a heavy jig. You still work back and forth side to side when welding because the heat and cooling pulls on the metal something fierce. You can actually straiten small bends in metal by heating one side. When I welded things like tables or frames you were constantly flipping stuff to get the welds to keep it pulled strait without being all clamped down. A good experienced welder can tell what to do and be pretty accurate. You probably don’t need a blueprinted perfect frame. Like I said the weakest link will be the axle setup treatment, a properly set up with a soft tire like floatation tire driven reasonably may never break. It’s the slop in the pin holes that start a hammering effect on the axle. The axle cup washers give you a more precise clamping force, beefed up metal support around the bolt etc. Sometimes its only little things that matter. Also we have never busted any but a front axle on a hopped machine.. So heavy duty fronts may be all you need for severe use. |
steve chunn
Junior Member
Username: Semper_fi
Post Number: 19
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.197
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 05:19 pm: |
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I believe I may the opportunity to compensate somewhat for the misalignment as I perceive it. I am going to focus on getting the individual axle shafts perpendicular to the chain rotation. They may not come out algined across the frame, but we are dealing with a 30+ year old machine. I will include a few pics if they will upload for discussion purposes only |
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