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Dave Johnston (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 24.205.212.100
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 03:27 am: | 
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How did early man MOVE stuff that was way too heavy? He may have known about the lever, but even the Egyptians did not know about block and tackle. So if you got something that just will not move, what is the simplist tool to move it? If you research basic tools, you see the ramp, the level, the simple "change of direction" pulley, but what one basic tool gave magnification of power?.... The side winch... Here is how it works. You attach one end of your rope to your "immovable object" bet it a rock or tree. You attach the other end to your object to be moved, such as your Max or etc. The longer you can make the distance between the two the better. Make the rope tight. Then go half way between the two and PUSH sideways. Wonders of wonders, your Max or etc will be easy to move, and will move towards your anchor. At first, the motion will be great, but as you approach a 90 Degree angle on the rope, it gets harder and harder... Not to worry.. Stop, retie the rope so it is firm and DO IT AGAIN.... a Simple Side pull winch... not listed in any of the text books as a simple tool but easy to do. Now imagine the Egyptians moving stones...... |
Charlie Richmond
New member
Username: Csrichmond
Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 206.66.249.2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 02:42 pm: |
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Dave, I've got to give you 5 stars for that comment.
I like the good, old fashioned examples of how to use your head instead of your back.
A 100' coil of rope is a pretty cheap (and handy) winch. |
Tom Phillips
Junior Member
Username: Dozerdawg
Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 24.225.21.98
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 11:28 am: |
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Ok - that sounds great, do you just push against the winch line with your "body" or "hands". What do you use in your winch after you get past the 50 feet of winch line? |
Jerry R. Nuss
Intermediate Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 55
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.156.75.21
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 06:26 pm: |
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Ok, it will work if a person can overcome friction and stretch in the rope and have plenty of open space to make the sideways movement.
I think what you are saying is basically changing the base and vertical on a right angle.
The right angle formula is (axa)+(bxb)= (cxc)
I don't know how to express squared with this keyboard so axa is a multiplied by a.
A leg is the prependicular part of the angle, b leg is the base and c is the slope,( hypotenuse).
starting out with say 100 feet of rope and standing at the center. c would be 50, b would be 50 and a would be 0.
so 0x0 + 50 x 50 = 50 x 50
or 0 + 2500 = 2500
ok now a person pushes on the rope and moves it 10 feet, so A would become 10 and c would still be 50 but b would change as the objects moves closer to your starting point.
So 10 x 10 + unknow x unknown = 50 x 50
100 + unknown x unknown = 2500
subtract 100 from both side of equation.
unknown x unknown = 2400
square root of 2400
48.98
so the moveable object moved 1 foot if the force applied to the rope is greater than the friction and gravity on the object and force of the rope. |
Tom Phillips
Junior Member
Username: Dozerdawg
Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 63.163.38.233
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 09:17 am: |
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SAY WHAT??????? |
dave Johnston (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 24.205.212.100
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 03:33 am: |
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What friction? Move a 100 foot rope 1 FOOT sideways and the ends come 2 inches closer....a 6 to one advantage.....or 1200 pounds for a 200 pound move.... try it...this works.... it is not a listed simple tool and it has all the atributes of a simple tool.... change of direction of force....mechanical advantage.... etc.... |
Jerry R. Nuss
Intermediate Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 56
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 70.106.217.63
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 05:53 pm: |
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Can you give the math formula for this?
Friction would be due to the surface. Ice versus rock which would have greater friction????
Where are you getting the numbers of 1200 and 200? |
mark
New member
Username: Maxmark
Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 67.140.81.73
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 07:59 am: |
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Boy you guys are brutal! Sounds like a good idea to me |
philip w.cox
Member
Username: Philipatmaxfour
Post Number: 25
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 209.226.175.59
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 11:24 am: |
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BRUTAL ! I'll say ! I don't know if I need more rope or a calculator. I'm afraid to leave the house now. W. PHILIP |
Dave Keeso
Member
Username: Argomag
Post Number: 31
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 24.43.239.156
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005 - 12:26 am: |
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Now i remember why i decided never to do anyting that involved math as a career! Fortunatly, driving ARGOs around involves none! |
Jerry R. Nuss
Intermediate Member
Username: Jerrynuss
Post Number: 57
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 70.106.202.101
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005 - 06:07 pm: |
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I'm not trying to be brutal. I did it using straight geometry and using trigonometry and it works as a concept. My question is if there is any friction and if some gravity must be overcome. For instance the vehicle is in a hole. The mechanical advantage I came up with much greater than the six to one so I wanted to check my numbers. The down side it is it won't move more than an inch or so at a time. So the way to do it would require 3 people. 1 to pull the rope tight around a tree or pole then take up the slack after the vehicle moves. another person to push sideways on the rope. The a third person to block the vehicle from rolling back into the hole before the person at the tree can take up the slack. Conceptually it will work. I think another way would be to use the same setup with the addition of a couple of sticks and have the rope twisted over the sticks then flip each stick in turn. |
david berger
Intermediate Member
Username: Davidrrrd
Post Number: 98
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 172.166.94.225
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 09, 2005 - 08:48 am: |
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jery in practice i can tell you it's posable and usualy the aim to pull rope taut as quickly as posable befor locking it away so machine (or load of some kind) dosent retern to previos position, this requires trial and error to master,
improvisation is key to servivel and so a log or rock would quicly find it's way into use if it became nesesary,
i dont beleave people wouldent think of this tool if need be and nesesary components were at hand,
we think therefore we are right? |
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