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MaxRules (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: | 
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I have decided to replace all the outer bearings on my machine to make it water tight once again. I did find out that bearings last about 250 hours with no lube. The two rear axles both have the outer bearings froze up on the axle. I will have those pressed off but now I have another bearing problem. The two middle axle inner bearings are seized up on the axle. That means I can't get the axle out of the machine. The front left axle inner bearing has the allen screw stripped out. What is the easiest way to get these axles out?
Does RI use a new better bearing in the Max II now?
MaxRules |
Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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Brandon
I removed a couple of mine by unbolting the inner flange and sliding it as far as possible to the outside. Take a ball peen hammer and smash the bearing to pieces. The outer race and balls remove easily. The inner race is a little tougher but eventually you can crack it. Maybe try a chisel too. I recommend safety goggles and a lot of cussing too!
Tim |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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if the axels get even slightly bent thay bind up the locking coler, you may have to remove the axel with the bearing and streaten it to remove the bearing. or as tim sugested, destroy the worn bearings, if you dont have a spaner wrench for the locking collers than you should invest in one, i get many uses from my bearing collers with that tool, ri sugests use of a punch to set and remove locking collers because it destroys them sooner than laiter,(better for bearing sales)i have an axel puller i made from an old ri. "weld on hub" often used as an adapter from older three bolt axels to the dot 5 bolt pateren ri uses, i just poped out the studs and had a large nut welded to the center for a slide hamer, this way you can pull an axel strait out of that inner bearing and maybe some stubern outer bearings too! thay almost always stall when the bolt hole in the axels get to the bearing race, its because the metal around the hole distorts a little during use, good resen for big slide hammer! but if you can give a pass or two with a file it comes out and gos in better, hmmm what els comes to mind_ _ - oh yah- if an inner wil not buge cut it with a dremil tool ! use a miny cuting wheel, cut most of the way thew and hit it with hammer& maybe a chisel . presto loose inner race! good luck! i just replaced one, only 1/2 mile on it after we brought it home from humphry ! had a bearing and stuff with me and did it where it died ! (i had all that junk along just incase it hapend on that long trecheros trail) lol. HAPPY AXELING!!! |
Gord Young
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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Gentlemen,
Maunfacturers do not make machines with chisels in mind. There are better and proven methods of removing bearings, which do not require beating parts to pieces. What you are recommending will probably lead to axle damage; not the desired effect.
I recommend that you consider taking the subject axle to a machine shop where they would use a hydraulic press to remove the old bearing; a procedure which is normally accomplished in minutes.
If the Axle is bent, it can be straightened out once the bearing is removed.
Remember, getting a bigger hammer is not always the only solution, and should be an indication that something is wrong and there is perhaps a better way to proceed.
Good luck.
Gord |
Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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Gord
Pressing them off is great but how are you going to fit the machine in a press? There is no way to remove the axle until you remove the bearing. I have restored a lot of machinery in my time and sometimes breaking a part that is useless to salvage is far easier than anything else. Maybe if the manufactures used never seize when installing you wouldn't have to. I can't imagine hurting the axle to any great degree. It only took a couple sharp raps.
Tim |
snowco
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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Hot Tip for all ATV,ers out there. We use a product called LPS #3 for all metal to metal fits. LPS #3 sprays on like oil but soon it becomes like a Bees Wax. Ask your local supply house,it's cheap about $6.00/can
Steve Snow
Snowco |
david berger (Davidrrrd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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somtimes you wil have to remove flanges to get the axel & bearing out together as the bearing won't come off, somtimes you have to streaten the axel with the bearing on as is bent begining inside the bearing locking coller, unles you wish to destroy the bearing first, i have done it boath ways depending on the condition of the subject bearing.i carried a spair flange-bearing and axel to humphrey just because you never know ! (nesesety is a mother !) |
Jim O'Day (Jim2991)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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Max II – How to remove the center axle.
I need a little bit of advice. I am working on the right center axle of my Max II. I have splined axles. The shoulder on the outside bearing sheared away so the locking collar has nothing to hold on to. Consequently the axle spins free inside of the outside bearing. Additionally, the inside bearing locking collar came loose; I suspect that both are needed. Anyway, the axle can walk side to side and the chains misalign.
My problem. I cannot remove the center axle. I can only find 1 setscrew on the center axle sprocket. My repair manual says there are 2. Is there actually a second screw? Where is it?
With one screw loose, the sprocket seems to be still fixed to the axle. Is there a key in the spline/sprocket joint? The single set screw seems mighty skimpy to do the holding job.
I have tried to tap the axle out with a small mall but I would like to make sure there is nothing else holding the sprocket to the axle before I proceed with any gusto.
Any advice would be appreciated. |
Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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Just to clarify. Perhaps I phrased it poorly when I said; "smash the bearing to pieces". I just thought Brandon would appreciate that. The problem as I see it is that his inner bearing is frozen by rust and corrosion to the axle. He can not remove the axle even after unbolting the inner flange because it cannot be pulled through the sprocket, which in turn cannot be removed through the frame or body. Therefore you cannot remove the axle until you remove the inner bearing. I have a hydraulic shop press and would certainly use it if there were a way. BUT I see no way to use it under these circumstances. Since the bearing is junk anyway, why waste time and energy trying to save it. The bearings are very hard and the outer race will crack easily by a single blow of the hammer. The inner race because it is tight against the shaft is harder to crack and Dave had a good point in cutting it with a Dremel tool. I have also used air cutoff tools or angle grinders for this on other equipment but it's a little cramped in the Max. This makes it much easier to crack. I had two frozen on my Max that I was able to crack with just a couple blows of a pointed face hammer. There was no damage to the shaft. To me this is just a time saver and an easy solution. If you want to remove them some other way, by all means do so. I do not "beat my machines to pieces with a sledge hammer"! I actually keep them very well maintained, probably better than most who e-mailed me.
Jim I can't comment on the Max splined axle problem as mine are not splined. On my Tracker they were. They were so rusted in place that I had to saw the sprocket and hub and split that too to remove it. Rusted splined hubs are often very hard to remove. I don't know how close a tolerance the Max splines are but some are very tight when new. Maybe it is just another setscrew. Good luck!
Tim |
Jim O'Day (Jim2991)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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I had a thought that there may be “2” set screws, one on top of the other last night. I checked it out this morning and there is. I will report back if this is solved my problem. Sounds horrible to have to saw off sprockets...YUK! |
Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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It was horrible Jim. But at least I could salvage the shafts. I don't think you will have to resort to anything near that extreme. These were so badly rusted as to be hard to identify as once being a sprocket. I would not have reused them anyway. The bearings were so bad you couldn't turn the shaft with a 4-foot wrench. I think it sat outside and this shaft was in the bottom and often under water. When you do get it apart I would recommend coating it with never seize or LPS3 as Steve suggested to prevent future problems.
Tim |
Ernie Savinsky (Lucky45)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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When all else fails use kroil oil!
do goggle search on kroil oil and read the testomials.
http://www.thomasregister.com/olc/kano/kanopnlu.htm |
Jim O'Day (Jim2991)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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Axle Bearing is fixed. Just reporting in so no one needs to reply any longer to my inquiry. In case anyone is interested, the center drive sprocket on the axle is splined. There is a single setscrew hole on the drive sprocket with a double setscrew. The setscrew seats in a recessed hole drilled into the axle itself. It is bit difficult to land the set screw back in to this hole, but I did get it in. |
MaxRules (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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I have tried to free the two center axles for three days now with no success. The stripped allen screw on the front left axle is still stuck. I bought a new titanium drill bit and even with all my weight on the drill for several minutes, it could not drill the screw out. What now? It would do no good to just break the inner bearing off because the bearing sleeve would still be holding it. If I could get the four axles done (front and back) I could get the middle ones out by chaining one to a tree and using a come-along or my truck on the other axle. I'll be that would loosen 'er up.
MaxRules |
Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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At the risk of taking a lot of flak again. Cut or chisel the collar till it splits. It's much softer that the bearing and you can chisel it into. If you have a Dremel tool or something similar cut it. If the bearing was split off the shaft, chances are the collar would loosen up. I still think you should be able to drill the screw out without much trouble though. Titanium bits are worthless in my experience, although I know people who will disagree. I sell them in my store and have had many returned because they dull so quickly! Use a regular HSS or cobalt. I would refrain from yanking on it with your truck. Now you are going to damage something! (like the frame). I tried a large slide hammer axle puller on mine before I cut the bearings off and couldn't budge them and I had the collars off!
Tim |
Rob Roberts (Rob)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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A little preventive maintance would help alot. |
Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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If you have used P Blaster and it does not release, I agree with Tim, "carefully" cut the collar partially through so it will split off. Maybe this is a job for a welding shop at this point. |
Robert Godwin
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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I am a bit confussed about all this troble these guys are having with axle bearing replacements on the MAX. I must have a newer model than the guys talking about inner and outer bearings. My MAX II is a 1995 model (I think). I just replaced the bearings by simply removing the 3 bearing flange nuts on the outside of the tub; Removed the bolt that goes through the axle that holds the sprocket in place; pulled off the outside flange; and then with a small bit of encouragement, the axle slides out (with bearing and set collar still in place). Of course I did have problems removing the bearing from the axle. I secured the (removed) axle in a vise near the wheel hub (so not to damage the bearing area) and drove them off with a hammer(had to cut one slightly to break it of). The hardist part was getting the sproket bolt out of the axle. Seems that the bolt head is to close the the sproket.?!? I had to drive a thin wall socket on the bolt head but then the bolt was so tight that the socket broke when i tried to turn it (Yeah, it was "craftsman"). I ended up drilling the bolt out. But after that all went well until I tried to put the axles back in with the new bearings and flanges. Seems that the new bearings/flanges are smaller than what came out of it. The bolt holes will not line up with the bolts???? Must have wrong parts... calling RI Monday.
Obviously the design must have changed on the axle/bearing assembly. |
Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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Bob
What about the inner bearing? You can remove the outer bearing as you describe but unless the inner one is "falling off loose" the axle wont come out through the sprocket until the collar and bearing clears the end of the shaft. There must be another bearing on the inner rail. It should be the same type as the one at the body. Mines a 96 Max IV but I have to believe yours still has an inner and outer bearing. The inner one is usually frozen almost as bad as the outer one to the shaft so I'm puzzled. Maybe the Max II sprockets are different but on mine there is plenty of room around the bolt heads. The inner bearings and flanges are smaller than the outer so it sounds as if you have the wrong ones but check the inner bearings too. I'm curious why it came apart so easy.
Tim |
Robert Godwin
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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Tim,
I talked to RI today... I did get the wrong parts. My MAX II is a older version and only has outer bearings. The end of the axle slides over a shaft (fitted with a bushing) on the inner rail of the frame. Mine may be easier to change but it seems that they will have to be replaced more frequently than the newer ones with inner and outer bearings. |
Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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I knew they had some kind of different arrangement for an inner bearing but thought it was changed long before 95. Glad you got the parts straightened out anyway. Is there just a bronze bushing then in the end of the axle? You couldn't change to solid axles then either. At least it's easier to take apart!
Tim |
MaxRules (Brandon_price)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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I had a friend come over today to help me with the three stuck axles. We got all three out and they are about ready for new bearings. The secret to getting the inner bearings off when they are froze is to make a slide hammer out of the axle. Unbolt the outer flange (3 bolts), unbolt the inner bearing (2 bolts) and take out the one bolt holding the sprocket and axle if you have the bolt through the axle design. Take off all chains connecting to the spocket. The axle will now slide in and out about 5-6". Slide the sprocket towards the outer part of the frame so it will not move when hit with a lot of force. Now push the axle in as far as it will go and jerk it back out with all you got. This will slam the inner bearing agaist the sprocket and knock it right off the axle. It took 2-3 hits to get these off but it was easy to do once we knew how.
For the front left axle with the stripped allen screw, we got a small drill bit so it would not be so hard to drill the screw. We simply drilled the center of the screw. Since it comes to a point, the point was drilled out so it no longer held the lock collar.
After all this work and money....
I can't wait to tear it up again!!!
MaxRules |
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