By danx on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Looking at buying a machine with the main use being in deep snow. What is the best machine and tracks for snow? Will they go in deep mountain snow?

By jdhoath on Unrecorded Date: Edit

danx:
By far an argo conquest with supertracks and the ice cleat kit, Ive drove them all and the gound the supertracks cover with the eight wheels and the strong 20 hp motor in my opionion is your best bet. Did I mention this will be by far your most expensive bet! you get what you pay for though. the Second best would be a bigfoot with the standard track set. that is what I have and the extra horsepower helps in deep snow. with the shorter wheel base than the 8 wheeler standard tracks are better because they dont push as much snow as the supertracks.

By Chris on Unrecorded Date: Edit

What are the differences between the standard and super tracks for Argos? Would either of these work on a Max?

By jdhoath on Unrecorded Date: Edit

chris
standard tracks are about 14 in. wide and supertracks are about 18 in. wide. As far as argo tracks on a max it would probably work with the 22in. tires but I am not sure if the tracks would clear the muffler or the front of the underbody.
I am an argo guy but I wont hold any punches back when talking who has the best track system and it is definatly the max. I am currently making my own set of tracks for my 73 argo 8 out of half inch nylon reinforced conveyor belt. My only problem is I half to find a max dealer who will sell me just the tire keepers. I have a freind who made a set like this and they work better than the argo or max tracks, I have seen them in action.

By jerrypulda on Unrecorded Date: Edit

jd, i didn't know tracks fit on the bigfoot. i am deciding between the argo vangard 2 and the bigfoot, but was told tracks wouldn't fit it...

By jdhoath on Unrecorded Date: Edit

jerry
the bigfoot track kit comes with 6 new tires and rims to accomidate the tracks. that is why the track kit for a bigffoot cost so much more. I think you would be much more happier with a bigfoot. trust me i have had both.

By Chris on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Why are tracks so expensive on these machines? Do they really cost that much or is it such a niche that we have to pay high prices for the low volumes? I've seen the Max tracks and they are nice... but $$$$$.

By jerrypulda on Unrecorded Date: Edit

jd, this vangard 2 vs bigfoot is a new topic that i haven't really read about....
i assume the bigfoot is nicer all around in that it is beefier, has a longer wheelbase, more ground clearance, bigger engine...anything else?

By Alaska Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Of course when you are done screwing around with the argo. Look at the MAX, the track system does cost more but it will(and I have seen it)literally run circle around any argo.

Up here in Alaska we need a tough snow machine. The rubber track is far superior to plastic. Everyone I know that has an argo has to carry spare pins, track links, and tools to fix their tracks while in the bush. The track RI uses is snowmobile track which is designed to be run in the cold and in snow.

By jdhoath on Unrecorded Date: Edit

jerry
The wheel base is longer on the bigfoot which in turn makes climbing steep hills safer. One improvement though would be the vanguard exhaust (sp?) on the bigfoot. it is a larger pipe and it sounds better. I am sure it would help performance also. the tire perfomance compared to a runnamuck vs. rawhide is no comparison. I know a guy that took his runnamucks off and put 22' rawhides on and the performance boost was amazing.
you still cant beat the soft ride of the runnamuck tire though. to bad they didnt make a 25" runnamuck.

By ARGOGERU on Unrecorded Date: Edit

alaska bob,
tell your friend to put lock-tight on his set-screws for the rod collars for his tracks. Max tracks are better but when it comes to riding in just snow they are not much more durable. argo tracks are designed for cold weather, they are made from the same plastic as the bodies, and i know the argo itself is all weather machine. how deep does the snow get up their in Gods country anyway? I have always wanted to go to alaska but never have gone. I am going on a moose/bear hunt up their next year and looking forward to it.

By Alaska Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

So from what you are saying... Snowmobile tracks are not made for cold weather. Hmmm. I guess all the snowmobiles in the world will be switching to argo tracks. NOT!!!!

The problems guys in Alaska have with argo tracks is:

1: lack of traction unless you get the cleat set.
2: poor hard ground performance.
3: after a short period of time the holes through the links elongate and get sloppy.
3: link breakage. Always carry extra pins and links when traveling in the bush.

The MAX tracks are made from snowmobile track. Definately made for cold weather use. Very durable. excellant all condition performance. As the tracks stretch you can compesate with air pressure in the tires.

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Alaska Bob
are you a max dealer? Just wondering. I never said max trax were not designed for cold weather. I think myself as an argo owner that max has a better track system. argo makes a reliable track system if properly installed and maintained. argo tracks are not good on gravel or other hard surfaces, it does tear them up. they were designed for snow and marsh and have used mine and others in both and they preformed very well for me. I never had problems with my "used" set i purchased. Why would any one use tracks on any thing other than snow or marsh? If someone does I would like to know to make my riding more enjoyable, i really dont like getting stuck, most of the time. I hope someone benefits from the tip on the set screws on the collars being installed with lock tight because it works well for me. Hope I helped a brother 6 wheeler reguardless of what they drive.

By jsaylors on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Alaska Bob, I too live in Alaska, Valdez to be specific. Valdez is the snowiest sea level city in the world and the snowiest city of any elevation in North America. We average around 300 inches per season and have had as much as 560 inches right here in town, not just up in the mountains.

http://www.valdezalaska.org/climate.html

I've had my Argo Conquest with supertracks now for 3 years. I run it very hard and have not encountered any of the problems you are talking about. I've not yet needed them but I do carry an extra link and an extra pin. I find that these two small insurance items take up less space than the extra axle, section of chain, spare sprockets, spare bearings, and the roll-away tool cabinet that most max drivers need to carry.

By ARGOGERU on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Alaska bob,
I have never seemed to have any problem with traction with my tracks either. I do not have the cleet set, and as far as the tracks getting sloppy in the slots that hasn't happened either with 200 hours of use on them. If you have to raise tire pressure to keep max track tight on the wheels as you say above i wouldn't prefer a set of those because the ride is already rough enough with tracks let alone with 5 or more pounds in little 22 inch tires.
isaylor,
all that snow sounds like a blast, we are lucky to have 2 feet on the ground at one time. Do you use locktight on the set screws on the collars of your tracks?

By neil otto on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Tracks & Gravel: I've been watching this discussion with great interest since I plan to put tracks of some kind on my Max IV this fall. I have 21" rawhide tires with 5" axle extensions and 20 hp Kohler motor. Been considering Tru-Trax. The situation is that our cabin is on 15 miles of gravel road where the snow blows off the ridges leaving several 1/2 mile bare stretches followed by 100 yard stretches of 4 foot drifts. The last 2 miles is through trees where the snow is really soft and deep and the hills are steep. Any words of wisdom for me? Thanks.

By Oliver (Digipix) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I've never seen Argo tracks up close, just the tiny pictures on Argo's website. Does anyone have a picture of them showing them up close that I could see?

By johnprince on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Van2 vs Bigfoot...what I'm hearing is that if you put the the 22" rawhide III's on the Bigfoot instead of the 25"(8" rim), that's when you'll get the real impact of the bigger engine...bigger engine drives smaller wheels not bigger wheels if you are looking for low end power...though you will lose it on high end.

By ARGOGERU on Unrecorded Date: Edit

neil.
cant comment on truetrax but the gravel your talking about riding on to your cabin would not do any bad damage to the tracks from argo so i dont see why trutrax wouldn't be a good alternative. they are supposedly made from the exsact same material.

By Mark M (Mark2) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have the super tracks for my Conquest. I'll shoot a few pictures of the tracks up close for ya as soon as I can. I want to get those pictures of my wiper install also.

Oh and I haven't run into any problems as of yet with using my tracks. They work great, so far. Time will tell though.

If you click on my profile you will see a picture of my Conquest with the tracks on it.

Mark

By Oliver (Digipix) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Would Argo Tracks fit on a Max? Since you can add/remove links as needed, it seems like they would work just fine. The Max track kit costs $2700 for everything, bearing cages, etc... or about $2000 for the tracks alone. What do the Argo tracks run? The problem I see with the Max tracks is that if you tear one, you're screwed and have to pay a $1000 for a replacement. I like the idea of the repairable links. Hmmmm, this broke, but with my handy tool kit and an extra link... back in business. Is this not the case? Are the Max tracks strong enough that getting a rip/tear in one isn't that much of a concern?

By neil Otto on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Can't speak for Max tracks but the rubber tracks on my Cushman Tracksters are 30 years old and still going. The biggest enemy of rubber tracks seems to be sunlight. They begin to tear at the edges. I have had some luck repairing these by bolting strips of belting across the tear on the inside of the track.

By Henry Jones on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Before I bought my tracks I asked RI the very same question. They have never sold a replacement track since they have been using the solid rubber track. After 425 or so hours it does not show much wear at all. I only use them in the swamp or in snow. There's nothing like them.

By Mark M (Mark2) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I finally got the pictures of my tracks taken and I'll put them on line soon. Just wanted to let you know in case you still need to see them.

Mark

By newmax on Unrecorded Date: Edit

mark i would like to see those pics also

By Mark M (Mark2) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi hmmmm this is really weird. This will be my third attempt to post the link here for the pictures. Well, they say three is a charm. :-)

Here it is.
http://www.totalparadox.com/argo/pics/html/tracks.htm

I can always take more pictures so if you need a different angle just ask.

Oh I'm working on the site. It was thrown together real quick to get the pics online.

Mark

By Chris on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I keep hearing that the Max tracks are so much better, but these seem pretty nice. It looks like they're strong enough for anything, and looks like they've got lots of surface for floatation on snow. How strong is that linked hindge between segments? When turning one of these skid steer machines, there is HUGE amounts of stress sideways, can those links hold up? I like the idea of easily repairing a link in the field.... hmmmmm. Thanks for the pics.

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I like the idea of never having to repair a link. The Max video I have from a dealer in Minnasota shows a Max II with tracks sliding sideways down a steep hill. It was an excellent example of how well the tracks stay on the tires and will hold up on a skid steer.
I've had an Argo dealer tell me that the Max tracks were better. Now that's rare.

MaxRules

By argogeru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I agree with brandon that the max tracks are better than argos but, if the argo tracks were a poor design they would have changed them a long time ago. my tracks have taken alot of abuse and i have had no problems. Argo is supposedly going to a new rubber track some time in the near future from what people were saying at humphrey and I will be interested to see if that is true and how they will differ from maxtrax.

By Chris on Unrecorded Date: Edit

What's the cost of the Argo Tracks? I think the Maxtraks run about $2000?

By Gord Young on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Mark,

That is a good site that you've built there. Keep adding new pics and keep up the good work.

By Mark M (Mark2) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

OK Argo makes two different size tracks. The regular tracks which are 13 inches wide cost about $1400.00 for the Vanguard 1 & 2, $2100.00 for the Bigfoot and $1700.00 for the Response and Conquest.

Their supertracks, these are the ones I have, are 18 inches wide and come with spacers to move the wheels out to fit them cost about $2000.00 for the Vanguard 1 & 2, $2700.00 for the Bigfoot and $2500.00 for the Response and Conquest.

As far as having any problems with them. None so far. The pins that hold each individual link together seem strong enough to me. I haven't bent or broken anything yet. Biggest problem I had was putting them together. It wasn't hard just took a while.

Thanks for the comments on the site Gord. I do what I can with it as I have time. I hope to remember to take my digital out with me more when I go riding.

Mark

By Dane on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Are cushman tracksters good in the snow?

By Bubba Hunt on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Dane,
I owned a cushman for many years. I never had a problem in any type of snow.I ran the powder at 50 below in Fairbanks and the muskeg bogs in the summer.I sank it twice due to my own stupidity. It went everywhere I wanted to go, sometimes dragging a moose behind.
One winter my brother took a cushman into the back side of Lassen Park after his bear dogs. He crossed drifts 20 feet deep. I can't do that with my Hydro.As you know, there are all kinds of snow conditions.I have fallen through in my snowmachine and had to dig out.Most of the conditions are nothing to the cushman.
Bubba

By Barak (69.213.110.131) on : Edit

I heard that if you are attempting to travel through/over 2' of snow it doesn't matter what you drive w/tracks (argo or Max) they won't be able to handle it and will get stuck. Is this true? Anyone tried it? Is over 2' of snow Piston Bully or Scot Trac Land?

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) (216.166.168.53) on : Edit

Well Barak, you must not have been talking to any Max owners (at least Max owners with the new solid 15" wide rubber tracks that came into use in 1997 or so. I use my machine in some of the driest snow around and it goes fine in any depth of snow as long as you don't try to climb too much of an incline. It won't climb a 45 degree incline in the powder the way it will on dry ground or hard pack snow (if it can get traction on the snow); my guess is 25 degrees is the maximum in deep powder. I think probably the best performance machine is the 25 HP Kohler powered machine (Max IV 900T) as it doesn't weigh as much as the 950T and gives that little extra ground speed because of the increased diameter of the drive pulley that you don't get with the 600T or 850T.

I think the Argo Avenger can also go in most any snow conditions. It doesn't have as low of PSI on the ground that the Max machines have, but it also uses a solid rubber track.

You didn't say where you plan on using said machine or how much you intend to haul in/on it. but as long as you stay within the factory specs for load, you can use a Max in most any conditions. There is a slight learning curve to get the most out of a max; gotta stay off the throttle in some conditions.

I'm sure I will get heat for this as I most always do. The Max has the lowest PSI on the surface (snow, mud or ground) of any skid steer in current production and can go where no other can. I think probably the Max with tracks has the lowest PSI on the ground of any machine in production.

By Barak (69.213.108.253) on : Edit

Fred,

Thanks for the info. We don't have a ton of snow where I live but might consider taking the Max to a place that does. Obviously what I heard (about it not going in snow over 2 feet) was not exactly accurate.

When it comes to climbing steep inclines it would be more difficult. My engine manual says not to operate the engine on a steep incline for an extended period anyways so I would avoid doing that.

By Rogersmith (Rogersmith) (4.244.171.194) on : Edit

Fred, I havn't seen your avenger tracked psi #'s that you said you'd cipher out. Maybe you did 'em and didn't like what the calculator said? hehe
No problem, I wouldn't expect you to post anything that showed your product in a less than advantageous light.

My pencil says you can load a 100 lbs of cargo in the back of an avenger and still have less psi than an empty max IV, along with more ground clearance.

Based on avenger tracks 18", weight 1200, wheel base 79"

Max IV tracks 15", weight 800, wheel base 58"

That's without adding max track kit weight or tracks for either vehicle, or driver weight.