By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have a few ongoing problems with my machine.
#1 The bolts that pin the sprockets to the axles keep breaking. I am using grade 8 3/8" bolts and I seem to break them every week or so. Why would this happen?
#2 I also broke 2 axles within the past month. I do not know if they were originals or homemade, but they both broke at the 3/8" holes for the sprockets.
#3 I made my axles out of cold rolled and bent one by barely hitting a tree. A few good whacks with a BFH and I was able to straighten it. What steel should I use for the next ones?
#4 T-20 transmission seems to grab the laterals from my hands when braking with the transmission. It almost seems the bands are not fully disengaging when I pull back on the sticks. The plungers do not have excessive movement and I don't plan on opening the transmission unless I really have to. Anyone have this problem?


Thanks in advance,
Lance

By Attex Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Liflod: I had the same problem with my Attex. I must have got some "good" grade 8 bolts the last time; I have not broke any bolts in a long time. Now I'm having problems with the nuts backing off the bolts. I put good ni-locks on them but I'm still having problems. I'm going to double lock it and put some red locktight on it!!!!! About the axles. I only broke one, and made a new one out of cold roll like you did. I have been off some 3'+ jumps in a tough truck race and I have not bent mine yet!!!! You could use some chrome moly if you could find some; you will never bend that. About the T-20. The bands wrap the drum when you pull on the laterals, not disengage. The only thing I can think of is; are you using Dex or are you using Ford ATF? Ford ATF has friction modifiers so it might grab and chatter.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max Dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Liflod, on the T-20: Check to make sure you have neutral in the middle of your lateral travel. If not, your bands are too tight and they will not release completely. I agree on using Dextron rather than Ford tranny oil. How far out do your plungers come? If you can see the 1st o-ring, it is probably time to change bands.

By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

My friend and I were out last night and broke another bolt. We noticed that it breaks right at the begining of the threads. I will buy some bolts with longer shanks on them to see if the type of bolt is the problem.

I am using dextron fluid in the T-20. I am using the dextron that I can find locally. I tried looking for Dextron A like it calls for , but they said this is the replacement for all Dextron. The plungers look to be in spec according to my manual. My manual is different than my machine though. The manual shows eye bolts out of the plungers but mine has regular bolts that connect the laterals to the trans. I will check the plungers more closely and let you know what I come up with.

McMaster Carr has any steel rod I could possibly want. I'm not sure what # to buy. I did notice some number that indicated chrome-moly but I would rather have somone tell me the right number to order. The price was about 22$ for 36". My axles are 18 1/2" long. I think if I buy a 3' piece, I will make the axles 18" on the front to narrow the track some. I don't think 1/2 ' will make a difference.

By david berger (Davidrrrd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

the shank should go all the way threw the drive tube, if you need to you can cut the bolts shorter
with a chopsaw and grind the edges too clean up the threds at the end, but by all means use only the shank to drive the axle,
also do you have all your raidiesed washers that hold the drive bolts straite and centered ?
have the holes on the drive tubes and or axles enlongated or egg'd out??
+ i think you can shorten them even more as the old style tires had an ofsett hub and with adapters and rim's that have centered hubs your tires now are way out from the body, probly about 2" more than old tires where!
i'd ask at a machine shope what type of steal to use, and ask about having them hardend after there made, prehaps as hard as auto axles,

By Kevin Vallelunga (Kevinv123) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Liflod,
4140 or 4130 are the numbers you are looking for. When you have completed the machining/fabricating(but prior to any welding) get them stress relieved and heat treated to Rc 42-46. They will be very tough. After you weld the flanges on, get them stress relieved after welding and re-drawn back to Rc 42-46.

Kevin Vallelunga
Sr. Engineer-Stampings and Tool Design
Ligon Bros. Mfg. Co.
3776 VanDyke Rd. Almont, Mi. 48003
(810)798-3922 x244
(810) 798-8193 Fax
(810) 706-1882 Mobile
mailto:kvallelunga@ligonbros.com
http:\www.ligonbros.com

By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I purchased 6 feet of 4140.

I broke the other cold rolled axle in the woods near my house. If the right rear breaks on an ATTEX it binds the chains. If you remove it completely, you have no drive on that side. I removed the axle and replaced it with a piece of cold rolled. I let the sprocket freewheel on the axle so I could install the chain and drive out on 5 wheels!

The only thing I need to do on my axles is drill 2 3/8 holes in it. As far as heat treating goes, how would I go about this at home. Can I heat it up to cherry red and quench it in oil or water? How much would it help?

I'm still wondering what the manufactures use for their axles and if they are heat treated or not.

By Attex Bob on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Liflod: Don't bother with heat treating. If you bend that 4140 chrome moly you won't have to worry about the axle.......you will have to worry about what hospital you will need to go to!!!! I have worked with 4130, and the only way I can describe it in a word is, "amazing". If cold roll or mild steel is a 3 on a scale of one to ten, then chrome moly is a 10. I can guarantee you will not break or bend solid chrome moly. You will have no worries from now on with axles.

By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I been waiting for someone to tell me I won't have to worry about a part of my Attex! Now if I can make the rest of it dependable.....

After breaking the rear axle the first time, the sprocket tube also broke at the sprocket. I just turned the sprocket tube around,redrilled the hole and cut off one side a little so the sprocket would line up with the transmission sprocket. I broke the other side this time so I have a sprocket with no tube on either side. I ordered a new sprocket to save me some effort. I am going to use a piece of schedule 40 1" pipe for my sprocket tube. It has about 3/16" wall thickness which looks much stronger than what the factory used.
The cost of a 6 foot piece of 4140 is $26.00. That will give me enough to make 4 axles that are 18" long compared to the original 18 1/2 ". I will replace the front and rear and leave originals in the center until they break.

By Kevin Vallelunga (Kevinv123) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Liflod,
If you were to heat treat 4140 or 4130 at home the first time you drove your Attex the axles would break. Without a vacuum furnace and Rockwell tester drawing it back to a low Rockwell would be near impossible. Attex Bob is correct, heat treat is not really necessary. I only gave you the information so if you were to heat treat them you had the correct process and Rockwell scale/range.

By chris redel (Chrisredel) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi, guys great info. If you were to weld onto the 4140 would this weaken it to where you would have to worry about it? thanks much

By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Thanks for the info Kevin and Attex Bob. My wife said I received my steel yesterday. I will start building axles when I get home.
As far as drilling the holes in the axle, I will buy a 1/4" and 3/8" cobalt or other good drill so I can drill this stuff. Should I buy more or can I just drill it 1/4" than 3/8". I will be using a drill press and cooling/cutting fluid.

By Kevin Vallelunga (Kevinv123) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Liflod, Chris Redal,
Welding is ok if 2 conditions are considered;
1) The weldment should be normalized and annealed after welding.
2) The face plate should have a hole bored through it and the shaft pressed in and welded on bothe sides. Face off the plate on a lathe to eliminate run-out at the rim/tire. Stop short of the weld leaving a boss of native material. If assembled properly it should not be to unsightly.

By Kevin Vallelunga (Kevinv123) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Liflod,
I would drill with a 1/8-3/16 split point Cobalt drill and then a 3/8. If you were to use a 1/4 and then the 3/8 the outside corners of the 3/8 would burn up due to terrible drill chatter. Another option would be to drill straight through with a 23/64 drill and then ream with a 3/8 reamer. This hole will have a tighter diametrical tolerance, if that is what you are looking for. A high quality cutting fluid like Cool Tool or Tap Magic will be necessary, be careful of workhardening.

By liflod (Liflod) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I appreciate the pointers. Like I told my wife the other day (after retrieving my Attex from the woods) when something breaks I'm going to fix it as correctly as I can. I'm also cheap so I have to balance the best of both worlds!

By chris redel (Chrisredel) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

thanks for the info I am looking forward to having some good axles to bounce on. chris